D&D 4E 4e Srd

[Li Shenron]

If the DM has a single copy of the rules, and some or all of the players use the SRD, it could actually hurt WotC sales.

Well, technically it's possible to play the game with only 1 PH, 1 DMG, and 1 MM per the whole group of people, without any SRD. That is how we used to play in the early times.

I think you're worried too much about "hurting the sales", and I don't think that even WotC reasons in terms of "how to prevent people from not buying our books", but instead "how to help people buying our books". A good companies reasons by the positives, and not by the negatives.

 

[Flynn]

I personally support the release of the 4E SRD as soon as WOTC is able to, preferably in a manner similar to how v3.5 was handled.

I also hope that the development process is managed such that future material (PHB 2, DMG 2, MM 2, etc.) can be entered into the SRD with limited effort, so that it is easier for WOTC to expand the 4E SRD if that suits their marketing needs.

Doing so will not impact my buying habits, as I will still buy the core books as they come out. Most of my players are the same way.

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[kenmarable]

I would certainly pay some heed to Clark's comments. I have my doubts that there will be a SRD near 4e launch time, and likely not early for publishers at all. I still have my series of RTFs from the 3.0 PHB that was sent out by Ryan Dancey, wonking formatting and all.

In fact, I would much prefer a laundry list style documents of what is and isn't open because it is much faster for WotC to do, which makes it more likely they will keep it up to date. The only significant amount of time would be the decision process, then give someone an hour to make a list to post. Much faster than the weeks of retyping.

However, that being said, there's a chance 4e will work differently than 3e. This time around R&D isn't typing into Word documents that then need cut and pasting and/or retyping to format different. At least for all of the rules work, they are using a database to enter it all in, so that the D&D Insider generators has all of the content already in there. So it sounds like they are using the database to spit out the content for the books as well. If so, then it's a small step to use that same database to spit out the SRD. If they set it up right (and if they did it early on, it should be easy to set it up that way), then updating the SRD is still as easy as the laundry list. Just rather than typing a laundry list, they just click a button for each item on the list.

I have no idea if they have considered that or not. I would hope so since it would be closer to a trivial amount of time to incorporate something like that from the beginning. But it wouldn't be outrageous to build something like that later (but the "not trivial" amount of time might be higher than their threshold to devote to it).

Either way, the presence of the content in a database format at WotC does change the equation for 4e and could cut down on a lot of the re-typing issue that was probably the largest hurdle in keeping the SRD updated (from WotC comments it sounded like there were more approved changes, just no time to push them out in an approved way). Like Clark, I'd just love it if WotC found the process that works for them that allows them to potentially release open content from any book with the least amount of effort on their part. If that's no retyped SRD and just a RPGA-style laundry list of what's allowed. That's fine with me since the entire purpose of the SRD is for publishers (and whether or not WotC posts full SRD documents doesn't matter since someone else eventually will).

 

[The_Universe]

I know I sure *hope* there's a free, online SRD for player use, but it's not really a deal-breaker for me. To me, it's much more important that WotC do their damnedest to ensure that the game has 3rd party support than to ensure I can see the class progression for the rogue online. I write my own adventures and campaign settings as a general rule, but a lot of published adventures would have been a lot more attractive if they had included some of the stuff from WotC's expansions...

 

[Imaro]

I think the SRD should be released with 4th ed. or close to it. I seriously doubt it will hurt sales. There are those who willl buy the books no matter what...Those who won't buy the books no matter what...and those in the middle. I find myself as one of those in the middle. I bought 3.0, adventures and splat books...then upgraded(reluctantly and a little angrily) to 3.5 even though there was a SRD.

I feel apprehensive at best about 4.0 because of the 3.0 to 3.5 three-year debacle (among other things). I would rather look at the SRD and make an informed decision on whether I want to go with this edition or not. Some might claim that's what reviews are for, but I know the hype as well as personal feelings, about everything from D&D to WotC as a business, will bias most of these.

If the game is as great as they think it will be(and has been hyped to be) then I say the SRD won't hurt them. They should have a game people want to buy and support. I mean there are illegal copies of almost every book WotC has made and I don't think this has significantly harmed their sales...at least not of the corebooks.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

In 25+ years of gaming, I've never played in a group that had more than one copy of the core rules until last month.

Conversely, in 16 years of gaming, I've never been in a group where each individual member didn't go out and buy their own copy of the rules within a month of the game starting.

Seems like no matter what game we play, the other people in the group go out and buy the core books for the game. Heck, they scoured the internet for copies of the Wheel of Time RPG. I pity them when they try to snag a copy of the Dune RPG we're starting in a month.

I hope the SRD is released via NDA to established third party publishers about three months prior to launch. Then, the gaming public gets it after GenCon '08.

-TRRW

 

[Glyfair]

Conversely, in 16 years of gaming, I've never been in a group where each individual member didn't go out and buy their own copy of the rules within a month of the game starting.

I have, but they were mostly casual gamers.

I do think it's a small minority (that might tend to cluster together). It's just you tend to notice when someone gets online and brags how he never bought a D&D book and plays just with the SRD. You see a lot of them starting the "when are you going to put this book in the SRD, so I can use it?" type threads (along with the publishers who want to use a certain book).

 

[see]

If the DM has a single copy of the rules, and some or all of the players use the SRD, it could actually hurt WotC sales.

Well, yes. And if the DM and players all download illegal PDFs of the 4e rules, that could hurt WotC sales, too.

Grab a copy of eMule, BitTorrent, or something and see how long it takes you to find any given 3.x book. I assure you, 4e books will be just as available.

There might be a number of people who would use the SRD but wouldn't use illegal PDFs. But they are going to be a fairly small slice compared to the ones who will buy in any case and the ones who will go with free (legal or not) in any case.

 

[Ranger REG]

I dont think you are understanding my post. I am not saying they will give permission on a case by case basis. I am saying, they dont have to have a fully typed out SRD for 4e launch. They just need to say: hey publishers, from your draft copies of the PHB here is what you can use and here is what you cant in the interim before we get the SRD out. That is how it was done for 3E,

Umm, yeah, I'm still not convinced with that and the beta SRD. No offense, but I think third parties need more times with the rules before they can support it. I'm not saying it won't completely stop a flood of poor products in the market enough to drown us poor customers, but at least it will minimize.

I'm glad a select few third parties have gotten the draft PHB but things could change from draft version to the final product version.

If they didnt have time to do it for 3E ahead of time, it will surpise me if they have it done for 4E. So dont expect a fully typed out online version of the rules available for your review. It wasnt available at launch of 3E and I dont expect it for 4E.

Well, if they don't put out the beta 4e SRD, then this could be a good thing. Delay the release of the 4e SRD.

 

[Ranger REG]

I hope the SRD is released via NDA to established third party publishers about three months prior to launch. Then, the gaming public gets it after GenCon '08.

I dunno. The material for the PHB may be edited by then (three months before the launch), but to extract content for the SRD would take at least a month and then be approved by WotC's legal team.

I know that the PHB has the bulk of the core rules, but is that enough for third-party publishers? Shouldn't they would want to wait for the MM material?