4e - Thunderspire Labyrinth - OOC

[Lord Sessadore]

Proposed background works for me. Having trouble decidin at-wills and feats. Initially my at wills were cloud of daggers and scorching burst. Cloud of daggers seems good to make baddies in melee make a choice whether to shift away or take damage(less attractive without a fighter in the party). Scorching burst was to toast me some minions and it also benefits from astral fire. Feats I initially planned on were astral fire, improved init and initiate of the faith(for extra healing). Second thoughts of initiate of the faith. With a pally and a warlord we might have enough healing. More is always good though too. Thoughts?

I haven't actually played in a 4e game yet, so take this with a grain of salt

For at-wills those look fine - one single-target power and one AOE effect - though cloud of daggers would be better with a fighter with tide of iron it's still a good power on its own. I could take an encounter push power, but it would replace one that lets me throw out some extra marking, which I think we could use since I'm the only defender. If you're an orb wizard cloud of daggers will probably have the highest single-target damage of any of the at-will powers for you, too. What are your encounter and daily powers? Looks like you're going the fire route though.

The other route I see is taking burning blizzard instead of astral fire and picking powers to match. The cold powers seem to have the most control aspects (lots of movement affecting status effects), and both cold and acid have some good damaging powers as well. But if that doesn't fit your vision of Vio then go with what does

Healing - I would imagine that more healing is always good. If you take Initiate of the Faith, that'll give us 2 surges/encounter (Patresh's Inspiring Word), plus 5 daily surges to throw out (3 from Sargil's lay on hands, 1 from Paladin's Judgement, and one from Vio's Healing Word). That should be enough to get us through any tight spots, I think. Though if something is more attractive to you than initiate of the faith, 1 possible surge/day isn't that big of a hit to healing potential.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, I'm copy pasting my way through life.

Yes yes my defenses are higher. Still trying to figure out stats actually. Thanks for the math point.

Wanted to have higher wis and dex, but now I'm playing with high int (and lower cha). That only really helps my Frigid Darkness power though...

Your Int modifier is helping more than just Frigid Darknes - It lets you slide targets farther with Diabolic Grasp and gives you more temp hp with Armor of Agathys.

Tactically:

We've got one defender and two strikers. So I'm trying to hybridize a bit.
With Armor of A & Ethereal Stride I can "pseudo defend" for a round or two; set up armor, trigger the ironskin belt and then blast and port into melee for some exciting pain and suffering (for our foes) (or get into melee knowing that I'll be able to port out).
1d10+5 cold damage to adjacent should make people unhappy and 13 temp hitpoints + resist 5 should keep me alive (especially if I spend a healing surge - can't really use ranged powers in melee).

My other serious tactical contribution is Frigid Darkness (which will set up the Rogue with Combat Advantage) -- it's an encounter so I plan on
R1 - - curse, eldritch blast - rod of corrupt -> hopefully somebody kills some minions
R2 - - Get the bonus from multiple dead minions to drop frigid darkness on the rogue's target (if necessary some smart warlord may have give them an extra melee basic attack to "pick up" the sneak damage if the rogue misses)
R3 - - win!

Diabolic Grasp will be useful pulling someone off of our back line, or for pushing an enemy into flank position. Again it's hit only so I'll optimally have to use the star pact bonuses to set it up.

Also, I certainly hope some minions drop in the first couple rounds of combat, what with one bona-fide wizard and 3 dragonborn!

 

[Redclaw]

Some thoughts on what Patresh offers...

Actually, Vio's Cloud of Daggers and Patresh's Viper Strike could work well together. It's a three-person combo rather than two, but it still forces that fun choice on the target.

As for the rogue's sneak attack, I didn't take Commander's Strike, but Hammer and Anvil works once per encounter, and Furious Smash should set up his attack when SA can be applied. I'm also perfectly happy to use Furious Smash whenever anyone is going to make a daily or encounter attack. You need to be adjacent to me or the target, but you get a +3 to hit, +3 damage boost for it.

Also, when calculating our healing, remember that Bastion of Defense will give everyone within reach 8 temporary hit points. Not exactly a healing surge, but useful. If we're still worried about healing, I could switch out Shake It Off for Aid the Injured. It gives an extra healing dose per encounter, but we'd lose the saving throw with a bonus.

I've also built Patresh to be a bit of a defender, complete with Divine Challenge as an encounter power.

Thoughts on items already discussed:

Cloud of Daggers is fine, but unless you're really pumping up your Wis, it's not going to have a huge effect beyond the initial attack. The benefit of going with Ray of Frost would be twofold. First, you'd have one at-will that targets reflex and one that targets fortitude. You could use whichever one seems more likely to hit (fort against kobolds, reflex against Zombies, for example. Additionally, it can really help us isolate and beat on a few enemies while you keep another from getting to us. One or two more cold powers would really make Burning Blizzard worthwhile. I'm happy either way, and I want you to go with what you feel is right for Vio, but those are my thoughts on it.

Wow, LS. You're right about Diplomacy. Insight is often useful in social Challenges, but we've got to be able to use what we learn. I think I'll switch Patresh's Soldier of the Faith training from Insight to Diplomacy. It means he'll never know what the person he's talking to is thinking, but he should be convincing anyway.

Alternatively, we could wait and see what our other two characters plan to use.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

On skills: If we want to double up on Diplomacy Sargil can stay how he is currently (I switched Endurance for Diplomacy - having only +4 on a trained skill was depressing ), or I can switch Diplomacy for a +10 Insight ... what do you guys think? Doesn't matter to me whether I have Diplomacy or Insight. I'm fine waiting to see what the other two bring for skills, too.

On tactics: Holy Strike is basically bonus damage against someone Sargil's marked, and Valiant Strike can be really accurate if he's surrounded - good for a defender. Neither provides any tangible benefit to anyone else though, other than the target being a little deader.

Paladin's don't get any powers that grant others combat advantage (at least not until 7th level), but Piercing Smite lets me mark up to 4 enemies for 1 round (and is vs. Ref), and Arcing Smite can let me mark 2 targets for 1 round. Since my Divine Challenge is single target and takes a minor action to switch, I figured I'd load up on marking powers to try and take as much pressure off whoever needs it. Paladin's Judgement is basically just big damage with a healing surge for an ally on top.

Sargil also has Channel Divinity: Divine Mettle which gives an ally a saving throw with +2 bonus. So either we can have two saving throws to give out per encounter or Patresh can take more healing. The other part of my Channel Divinity is Divine Strength, which gives Sargil +4 damage on his next attack. So I guess we sort of have 1.5 saving throws to give per encounter.

I was thinking, maybe I should switch Quick Draw for Durability to offset the 3 healing surges/day for Lay on Hands ... opinions? Taking Durability would leave me with 10 surges for myself even if I use all 3 Lay on Hands that day, instead of 8.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Actually, Vio's Cloud of Daggers and Patresh's Viper Strike could work well together. It's a three-person combo rather than two, but it still forces that fun choice on the target.

Just noticed something - on your character sheet you have Wolf Pack Tactics instead of Viper's Strike ... Are you switching them? Wolf Pack Tactics is probably better for the Rogue, while Viper's Strike certainly sets up Cloud of Daggers (among other things).

 

[Redclaw]

I was thinking about switching, since we don't have a fighter. Anything that limits or hurts shifting might be worth doing. WPT is great for rogues, however. I'm torn.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I have no idea what I'd pick, and Furious Smash is just too useful in any situation to give up. Even if you change your mind after we start, it's not the end of the world - you can retrain it as soon as we gain a level. Neither one is useless either, it's not like it'd hurt us if you took one over the other.

 

[Graf]

Proposed background works for me. Having trouble decidin at-wills and feats. Initially my at wills were cloud of daggers and scorching burst. Cloud of daggers seems good to make baddies in melee make a choice whether to shift away or take damage(less attractive without a fighter in the party). Scorching burst was to toast me some minions and it also benefits from astral fire. Feats I initially planned on were astral fire, improved init and initiate of the faith(for extra healing). Second thoughts of initiate of the faith. With a pally and a warlord we might have enough healing. More is always good though too. Thoughts?

You only have 1 choice: Thunderwave and scorching burst. All other choices are, unfortunately, crap.

Cloud of Daggers is good for exactly 1 thing. Killing a single minion. The "damage" that it does is so minuscule that any monster will just ignore it (what 2 points? 3 points? who cares?).
And it's a single freeking square. They could have made it zone 1, but they didn't and it's indescribably lame.

In any serious fight you're supposed to be controlling; and or running away.

You have to have thunderwave, because you will get into melee and thunderwave is the only thing that will allow you to 1. contribute 2. save yourself (see Mirna's action actually). Have I mentioned that in addition to being close it's also thunder and area and a push and vs fort effect?

To not take thunderwave is to doom yourself.

And scotching burst is your only ranged area.

The wizard at wills are particularly frustrating in this regard....

 

[Graf]

Your Int modifier is helping more than just Frigid Darknes - It lets you slide targets farther with Diabolic Grasp and gives you more temp hp with Armor of Agathys.

Star pact.... not infernal... so Diablolic doesn't change.
Armor is 10+int mod. So it's like an extra temporary hit point or two, once a day. It's nice but I don't think it would change the outcome much.

Infernal would probably be a better choice, but I want to try star's flavor.

Also, I certainly hope some minions drop in the first couple rounds of combat, what with one bona-fide wizard and 3 dragonborn!

Then I would be one happy warlock.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Star pact.... not infernal... so Diablolic doesn't change.
Armor is 10+int mod. So it's like an extra temporary hit point or two, once a day. It's nice but I don't think it would change the outcome much.

Infernal would probably be a better choice, but I want to try star's flavor.

Oops! My bad, sorry. I should've caught that, I don't usually miss things like that...

Your Int mod does increase your Reflex save and AC though. I agree now, though, that it doesn't give big bonuses for your powers.