D&D 4E 4e - Too much change?

[Imaro]

I gotta disagree. Wasn't the marketing for 3E "back to the dungeon"?

And you can't look at flavour changes in isolation. To consider how much an edition changes, you have to look at both mechanics and flavour. Even if the flavour changes in 3E were minor (which may or may not be true), the mechanical changes were not minor.

But wasn't the "dungeon" regardless of edition an iconic staple anyway? It wasn't like the "dungeon" appeared out of thin air with 3e.

As far as the changes go...isn't drastically changing the flavor (totaly cosmology, monsters, races, classes) and mechanics (paradigm upon which character abilities and encounters operate) just proving the point of a bigger change?

 

[Stalker0]

I disagree. Would you turn every bicycle into a motorbike because it goes faster?

If every motorcycle in the world was as safe and fuel efficient as a bicycle, then yes I would!!

When I say better, I mean better. Speed is only one way to be better, but so is safety and cost, etc.

What I'm saying is people are assuming that change is inherently bad without seeing the finished product.

 

[pawsplay]

QFT. Were the drastic changes made from 2E to 3E "too many changes"? No, because we're all used to the 3E ways of doing things now.

I think it has more to do with 2e being hated and the changes in 3e welcomed, versus 3e being well liked and people getting the willies over some of the proposed "improvements."

Look, we improved gnomes! They're gone!

 

[Reynard]

What I'm saying is people are assuming that change is inherently bad without seeing the finished product.

Or vice versa.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

First off, Wizards is not going to re-release 3e with hat in hand if you don't buy 4th edition.

Is someone saying they will?

Nah, they're far too shrewd for that. They'll release 5E far sooner than would otherwise happen with a successful 4E and try to recapture the flavour of 3E.

 

[Ty]

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 3rd Edition.

 

[king_ghidorah]

To be honest, D&D in any edition has not been a generic fantasy RPG. It has always been hard to directly simulate many fictional settings, and has brought with it a lot of D&D-specific baggage (clerics, Vancian magic, wizards who can't fight or cast healing magic, wearing the heaviest armor you can is great, characters with multiple magic items, etc.) that are seldom seen outside of D&D.

Well, I slept on it.

I'm still down for 4e, but in the way I'm down for Arcana Evolved - it's a cool and flavorful d20 game, but it's not general-purpose. And I'm okay with that. I've got an ongoing hack of the L5R system into a grim urban fantasy game and a 'best of d20' E6 variant coming together for any campaigns that need a more broad and versatile rules offering.

Just means I can stop pretending to myself 3.5 is a generic fantasy rules set.

 

[Fifth Element]

I think it has more to do with 2e being hated and the changes in 3e welcomed, versus 3e being well liked and people getting the willies over some of the proposed "improvements."

Look, we improved gnomes! They're gone!

They're not gone. They're in the Monster Manual.

 

[Fifth Element]

As far as the changes go...isn't drastically changing the flavor (totaly cosmology, monsters, races, classes) and mechanics (paradigm upon which character abilities and encounters operate) just proving the point of a bigger change?

The argument is that the mechanical changes are not drastic, when compared to the mechanical changes between 2E and 3E. The balance is between drastic flavour changes and non-drastic mechanical changes. I submit that, on balance, the changes are lesser than those between 2E and 3E.

 

[Voss]

I think it has more to do with 2e being hated and the changes in 3e welcomed, versus 3e being well liked and people getting the willies over some of the proposed "improvements."

... You really should back this up in some fashion. I don't remember 2e being hated any more than I would say 3e is generally well liked. I know and knew people on both sides of the fence for both editions. And for 1e->2e. (Who, by the way were angry about where their half orcs, monks and assassins where going...)

and yes, in the 2nd to 3rd edition change over, people were 'getting the willies' over the changes they were hearing about.