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D&D 3E/3.5 4E vs 3E... what are the main changes?

Zandel

First Post
I'm a 3E player from way back and was 2nd and 1st before that...

Have yet to go into 4e as i don't play so much now but will start again soon.

What are the major differences? why should i go to 4e over 3?

I don't want to go out and spend hundreds on new books without knowing what they will be like.

plz help
 

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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
You are asking a pretty monumental question. I'll try to distill the answer down as best I can.

4e emphasizes playability, fun, balance, and ease of setup/use. In doing this, it sacrifices some of the realism and breadth of options found in 3e.

One method it achieves this emphasis is by giving all classes similar groups of powers. All classes get some at-will powers usable every round, some encounter powers used once per combat/encounter, and some daily powers usable once per adventuring day.

4e also assigns certain roles to classes. Some classes are Defenders, who usually stay in one spot and hold the front line against attacking opponents. Others are Strikers, who deal a lot of damage but are not intended for front line combat. Some are Leaders, who give advantages to other party members and heal them. And finally some are Controllers who manipulate the opponents and field of combat.

By assigning these roles, the game tends to define how combat will proceed, and therefore allows the DM to more easily challenge the party and come up with opponents who have their own roles.

The role assignments are not set in stone by the way. You can, for example, not have a leader if your players choose, as all classes have at least some minor ability to heal themselves. However, the rules tend to assume you will probably have all four roles covered.

Many of the 4e rules are aimed at combat, and a lot of people report that combat seems more fun in 4e. One big complaint about 4e is that there are fewer rules regarding non-combat encounters (there are some, just not as many).

That summarizes most of the bigger changes in my mind. There are hundreds of changes, but those are the largest ones. You may find reading some other published summaries more helpful than this thread.

Also, one last note. I strongly encourage you to play the game a couple of times before making a decision. Hundreds of people report that the game plays differently than it seems from reading it. Do not assume you can grok the whole thing from reading the rules.
 

Zandel

First Post
Not sure about this....

Sounds to me that it's a major dumb down of the 3e rules set....

not so sure that i like the sound of that.... the major thing that i like about 3e was that options were basically limitless and no matter what class you were you could do well with enough smarts
 

Dice4Hire

First Post
Pretty hsty rush to judgement, if you ask me. Try it out and then decide, but give it a good try and then go one way or the other.
 


tanj

First Post
4e is essentially a new game. Trying to think of it in 3e terms is going to trip you up. For example a common mistake in my group is to think that "High Crit" increases critical range rather than increasing damage.

The buy in is not really that much. A PHB is all the players need and if you start with that you should be able to start to run a game with just one PHB. For a longer campaign a GM would find the MM and DMG useful.

I suggest getting the PHB and approaching 4e as a new game that is similar to D&D, but approaching 4e as a new game is important.


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Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Sounds to me that it's a major dumb down of the 3e rules set....

not so sure that i like the sound of that.... the major thing that i like about 3e was that options were basically limitless and no matter what class you were you could do well with enough smarts

I disagree that it is a major dumbing down of the 3e rules set. It's not a dumbing down of anything, and it's not the 3e rules set with a coat of paint. It's not like this is simply a reorganization of the 3e rules and elimination of some of them. These are entirely new rules, and it's important to start from the premise that this is not like the change from 3.0e to 3.5e, but is instead a new game on the same level as 2e vs. 3e.

I also think it is much easier to "do well no matter what class you are" in 4e. The classes are far better balanced against each other than they were in 3e. The wizard is no longer extremely weak at low levels and extremely powerful at high levels relative to the rest of the party, for example. Now, all classes are about equally powerful as all the others, at just about all levels. However, each class still does unique things relative to the other classes.
 

Ibixat

First Post
First post, ok yeah, his reply?

Stop feeding the trolls guy. This game has been out for a while, there are dozens upon dozens of reviews and posts about the changes from 3.5 to 4.0 already, do some simple research and searches on the changes and you'd find 100 answers to your question.

OP: So what changed?

First repsonder: This changed and that changed, etc.

OP: That sounds stupid.

Just let it go really. Everyone I know that has played 4.0 completely stopped playing 3.5 because games were faster and a lot more fun. The rules dictating roleplaying are gone, the roleplaying is limited only by your DM's imagination. Combat is faster and more fun for everyone I play with, A well designed combat actually feels like it could go either way and healing is not what the cleric does with a wand at the end of the fight, just topping everyone off so they are all at 100% for the next go. Oh yeah and at low levels the wizard is not constantly whining about needing a long rest to re-memorize spells.

Dangit, now I fed the troll. See what you all made me do.
 

Byronic

First Post
The man can disagree if he wants. It's not a crime to think that it's stupid.

In any case, 4th edition is simply a completely different game compared to the third edition. But to give you some comparison:

Some things are better. Probably the best improvement is that the game is a LOT easier for the DM. Preparation time for example is a lot less then in former editions and customizing monsters is easier.

The mechanics are simpler and more visible. People can retrain feats, powers etc every level (only one per level) which means you can take a feat to try it out and if it goes wrong, you can change it next level.

Combat involves more movement then before.

Some things are worse. The game seems less "realistic" and seems to require a greater suspense of disbelief. I can't put my finger on it but something's missing. It feels more like a game rather then something "real" But that is simply my opinion.

4th Edition is better if you believe you spend too much time preparing for the games, if you want classes to be more balanced or perhaps you'll simply like the more tactics orientated combat. Also because of the emphasis on balance combat is as balanced at level 5 as it is at level 25.

Third edition might suit you better (might) if you think you don't spend too much time as a DM balancing the encounters. If you like your classes to be more unique compared to eachother and didn't mind any inbalance. Or if you're simply still having lots of fun with it.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Sounds to me that it's a major dumb down of the 3e rules set....
How did you come to that conclusion?
the major thing that i like about 3e was that options were basically limitless and no matter what class you were you could do well with enough smarts
I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
What limitless options did you have in 3E that you do not have in 4E?
Why do you think you couldn't 'do well with enough smarts' in 4E?
 

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