D&D 4E 4E Weapon speed is back?

[Mallus]

Yeah, I've never really understood the popular perception of the Tome of Battle mechanics as being full of crazy-ass wire-fu stuff.

That perception is usually rooted in not having read the book.

 

[Mallus]

We aren't out to kill off the non magical fighter.

Leveling kills off the 'non-magical fighter'. By 10th or so most of them glow like Christmas tress under a Detect Magic...

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I would be excited by the return of weapon speed as a meaningful way to balance lighter, lower damage weapons. Sounds too good to be true.

... which is good, because weapon speed rules are dumb.

 

[green slime]

That's cool. I'm into "niche". Fighters should fight, Wizards should... well, let's say "cast magic".

I did see an interview with one of the designers saying that they want the Wizard, for example, to never really run out of magical power so that he's always blasting... that it's rather un-wizardly to pull out a crossbow and start plinking.

I'm not opposed to that sort of change, either. I guess all of that is bound up with the "per encounter balancing" that I've yet to fully digest.

Its also rather unwizardly to stand around blasting all day. Most fantasy novels mention caution and restraint in combination with great power.

 

[Shadeydm]

... which is good, because weapon speed rules are dumb.

Thanks, would you like to hurl a few personal insults while your on a roll?

 

[Korgoth]

Its also rather unwizardly to stand around blasting all day. Most fantasy novels mention caution and restraint in combination with great power.

Isn't that world-specific, though?

Like if you're running Lord of the Rings, every time Gandalf flings a spell you could roll a random Sauronic encounter chance. Or something.

Given the choice, having the wizard either stand around blasting or stand around crossbow plinking... *shrug*. I can deal with either. At least with the blasting option he's doing magical junk. So the experience for the player is not "now I have to be a 4th string fighter because I'm out of spells". He can still feel like he's the wizard.

No bid deal to me either way.

Now, on the matter of "magic swordsmanship":
There's a big difference between being a swordsman with a magic sword, and a magic swordsman. I want Fighters to remain 'non-magical dudes' that may or may not have access to magical swag.

 

[Mallus]

There's a big difference between being a swordsman with a magic sword, and a magic swordsman. I want Fighters to remain 'non-magical dudes' that may or may not have access to magical swag.

May not have magical swag? How many campaigns have you actually seen that happen in?

And frankly, in the context of the game, the difference between 'swordsman w/magic sword' and 'magic swordsman' sounds like the difference between a gay man and a straight man who has sex with other men.

I'm proudly out when it comes to magic swordsmen! Hmmm, I suddenly have the urge to rent 300...

 

[green slime]

Isn't that world-specific, though?

Like if you're running Lord of the Rings, every time Gandalf flings a spell you could roll a random Sauronic encounter chance. Or something.

Given the choice, having the wizard either stand around blasting or stand around crossbow plinking... *shrug*. I can deal with either. At least with the blasting option he's doing magical junk. So the experience for the player is not "now I have to be a 4th string fighter because I'm out of spells". He can still feel like he's the wizard.

No bid deal to me either way.

Now, on the matter of "magic swordsmanship":
There's a big difference between being a swordsman with a magic sword, and a magic swordsman. I want Fighters to remain 'non-magical dudes' that may or may not have access to magical swag.

Well In my mind, mages have always been about resource management. 4e seems to challenge that, but we'll have to actually wait and see. I'm not saying that there isn't a place for the warlock or sorcerer type, nor that I thought the reserve feats were a bad thing. Quite the opposite. It will be interesting to see how they resolve his issue.

Fighters, I'm sure they'll be an improvement on the present system.

 

[KingCrab]

They did experiment a bit with weapon specific feats in the PHBII. I'm thinking something like that.

 

[Keldryn]

That perception is usually rooted in not having read the book.

Oh come on, D&D gamers would never, ever do that.