[4E] Which classes would you prefer to see in a clone

Which 8 classes would you put as the most necessary classes in a 4e clone

  • Avenger (Stalker or Divine Hunter?)

    Votes: 11 25.6%
  • Barbarian

    Votes: 7 16.3%
  • Bard

    Votes: 18 41.9%
  • Cleric

    Votes: 29 67.4%
  • Druid

    Votes: 14 32.6%
  • Fighter

    Votes: 30 69.8%
  • Invoker (Avatar, Allegiant, Divine Soul)

    Votes: 8 18.6%
  • Paladin

    Votes: 24 55.8%
  • Ranger

    Votes: 20 46.5%
  • Rogue

    Votes: 29 67.4%
  • Sorcerer

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Shaman

    Votes: 5 11.6%
  • Warden (Bravestar? Wild guardian)

    Votes: 7 16.3%
  • Warlock

    Votes: 16 37.2%
  • Warlord

    Votes: 28 65.1%
  • Wizard

    Votes: 31 72.1%
  • Assassin

    Votes: 2 4.7%
  • Monk

    Votes: 8 18.6%
  • Swordmage

    Votes: 12 27.9%
  • Psion

    Votes: 6 14.0%

  • Total voters
    43

GreyLord

Adventurer
As the title states, which classes would you prefer to see in a Clone of 4e. I don't think I'll have the time to put every class in the clone, so some of those that I include will be pared down. Some will have other names.

Attempting to create a thread with a poll, hopefully this works and you can choose 8 options.
 

GreyLord

Adventurer
Personally, I'm privy to the Ranger and Bard, but not so keen on the Shaman.

For classes which I absolutely cannot see how we could use the actual class name and would have to come up with some alternate class which is very similar...I've included various options (not final by anymeans, just thoughts on the matter).
 

Zardnaar

Hero
My main eight for any edition are the big four plus Bard, Druid, Ranger and Paladin. It's also two of each role.
 

Jacob Lewis

The One with the Force
Barbarian (Primal/ Striker)
Bard (Arcane/ Leader)
Cleric (Divine/ Leader)
Druid (Primal/ Controller)
Fighter (Martial/ Defender)
Paladin (Divine/ Defender)
Rogue (Martial/ Striker)
Wizard (Arcane/ Controller)

2 of each role and power sources. Minimal overlap.
 
Barbarian (Primal/ Striker)
Bard (Arcane/ Leader)
Cleric (Divine/ Leader)
Druid (Primal/ Controller)
Fighter (Martial/ Defender)
Paladin (Divine/ Defender)
Rogue (Martial/ Striker)
Wizard (Arcane/ Controller)

2 of each role and power sources. Minimal overlap.
Just make sure the Fighter gets Warlord options.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
I also agree with above posters about the 8 primary classes. I believe the more ''exotic'' classes of 4e can be subclasses of the main classes. I dont remember the name, but in 4e when you chose to be a fighter, you decided at level 1 if you were a one-handed weapon specialist or a two-handed weapon specialist. Invoker, Avenger, Warlord, Swordmage, Warden, Assassin and warlock can be subclasses of another class. Then when you create your power lists, you just have to add some rider to benefit a subclasses or another.

Cleric: Warpriest, Monk or Druid
Fighter: Weapon master, shieldmaster or Warlord (be sure to have powers allow for ranged attacks not just melee like in 4e)
Rogue: Assassin (give some ''hunter mark'' or such, Thief (movement specialist), Bard (more controller with party buff)
Wizard: Arcanist (spellbook), Warlock (summoner/augur) or Swordmage (weapon as implement, more defense)

Wilder (Barbarian/ranger): Battlerager (classic barb), Beastmaster, Ranger
Sorcerer: Dragon Soul, Chaos Soul, Divine Soul (there you find your 4e Invoker)
Paladin: Knight (classic pal), Cavalier (mount based), Avenger (cloth armor, large weapon 4e zealot)
Psion: Ardent, Battlemind or Lurk
 
Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard - because it's not D&D without the big 4
Warlord - because it's the best class ever made and the most 4e of the 4e stuff
Paladin - because it's my favorite archetype
Barbarian - because sometimes people just want to hit stuff really hard, but not be sneaky about it like the Rogue
Swordmage - because it's another common archetype (the guy-who-fights-with-sword-and-spell-at-same-time)

Not on my list:
Ranger - kill him, divide his stuff up between the Rogue and the Barbarian
Druid - just a specialized Cleric of a nature deity

Also for both of the above: I hate pets. And shapechanging.

Warlock - I really wanted to include this class because it's also very cool. I wouldn't be entirely sad to drop the Barbarian, give his stuff to the Fighter, and add the Warlock to the list.

Everything else - too niche (Avenger) or pointless (Bard) or stupid in play (Monk).
 

Jacob Lewis

The One with the Force
Just make sure the Fighter gets Warlord options.
Sure you don't want to take another half-a-second to think about that? What kind of options are you thinking about?

How is this going to influence similar options for other classes that other people are going to want to see? Do we do the same thing for Wizards and Warlocks? What about Paladins and Avengers? What about the rest of the classes? Do we need to come up with similar ideas for all of them to keep everything balanced, or do we just let things get skewed from the get-go and hope to correct them in future supplements?

Are these going to be options for class builds for each character like original 4e (Great Weapon or Guardian Fighter), or more similar to separate classes like Essentials (Knight and Slayer)?

Will they share the same class features so they can have the same options regardless of build, or do players need to choose?

Don't get me wrong. There are plenty of ways to do this. But if you do something with Warlord, then there's opportunities to include some other classes as well. So maybe go ahead and take a full minute on this one. ;)
 
Any rule set that wants to feal DnDish needs to have the Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, and Wizard. Those are the corner-stone classes of DnD, and they represent the most basic implementation of the Defender, Leader, Striker, and Controller concepts. Personally the Fighter and Cleric are a little bland to me, but that might even be necessary to have in a system. That leaves four more classes for me to pick. I'm choosing one from each class role that I feel most represents 4th to me. Swordmage, Warlord, Avenger, and Psion give the most different play styles I think. I'm really disappointed I couldn't add in Warden, that class is really unique to 4th and really fun, but Swordmage is the best fighter-wizard concept that DnD has ever had. Looking at all the different variations on that concept over the years that have fallen short, it's clearly a popular concept that deserves to be included.
 

TwoSix

Lover of things you hate
Big 4 + Paladin and Warlord seem to have a big lead. Maybe just a core 6 is needed?
 

Jer

Adventurer
Just make sure the Fighter gets Warlord options.
If it's a clone, then you DON'T want the Fighter to have Warlord options. A clone should try to be as faithful to the original system as the licensing and copyright law allows it to be. If you start giving Fighters Warlord options you defeat the whole purpose of making a clone because you're making a new game instead.

To that end, the rationale for my choices would be similar to what Jacob Lewis used for his list, except I'd ignore worrying about covering all of the power sources and think instead about just each role and what I feel is "iconic" about 4e class choices. Additionally since the original question is asking which classes to tackle first, I think that complexity of the mechanics behind them should be considered too. So my choices would start with:

Fighter (Defender)
Cleric (Leader)
Rogue (Striker)
Wizard (Controller)

The core 4 have to be there to be a clone of almost any edition of D&D IMO. If you don't have these 4 represented, even if under different names, it's hard to consider your engine a D&D clone. The next 3 that I'd add would be:

Warlord (Leader) - a 4e clone without a Warlord would not feel like 4e to me. The Warlord is an innovative class that makes 4e very distinct from other editions of D&D
Paladin (Defender) - Having a second Defender in your base rules is a good idea, and the Paladin is the one that feels right to me for the base game
Warlock (Striker) - I like Warlocks, so sue me ;) But 4e was really where the Warlock class came into its own, and I personally think a 4e without a Warlock in it wouldn't feel "right"

The last class is the hardest for me - arguably another controller would be the "correct" answer and the Druid would be the "right" one for ties to previous edition reasons. But I personally think the 4e Druid class had a bit of a lack of focus to it and arguably it's going to be more complex to tackle a clone of it and it might be better to hold off on it for later. I feel like Ranger might be the actual "correct" choice even though it's another Striker role - I think the mechanics of a Ranger would be an easier lift than the 4e Druid for a first pass.
 
Am I missing Artificer, Ardent, and Battlemind in that list?

(Also Seeker, Rune Priest, and, well, er, Vampire - I can understand those omissions, but it would be nice to see the last get 0, not that that's possible, there's always someone …)



I'd think you'd want to highlight the new-to-the-game-with-4e classes, which includes a couple of the above, plus, from the Poll, at least:

Warlord
Avenger
Invoker
Warden
 
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Avenger's just a Ranger with a different +damage mechanic (+accuracy = +damage) and a lot of teleport powers.

Invoker's just a Wizard who worships a god. (And often has better powers than the Wizard. *zing*)

Warden... man I dunno. It had potential as a "shapeshift" class without the annoying shapeshift. But its Defender mechanics are terrible. It's OK as a tank, but tank isn't really a role in 4e.

I wouldn't miss those 3 classes at all.
 
If it's a clone, then you DON'T want the Fighter to have Warlord options. A clone should try to be as faithful to the original system as the licensing and copyright law allows it to be. If you start giving Fighters Warlord options you defeat the whole purpose of making a clone because you're making a new game instead. To that end, the rationale for my choices would be similar to what Jacob Lewis used for his list, except I'd ignore worrying about covering all of the power sources and think instead about just each role and what I feel is "iconic" about 4e class choices. Additionally since the original question is asking which classes to tackle first, I think that complexity of the mechanics behind them should be considered too. So my choices would start with:Fighter (Defender)Cleric (Leader)Rogue (Striker)Wizard (Controller)The core 4 have to be there to be a clone of almost any edition of D&D IMO. If you don't have these 4 represented, even if under different names, it's hard to consider your engine a D&D clone. The next 3 that I'd add would be:Warlord (Leader) - a 4e clone without a Warlord would not feel like 4e to me. The Warlord is an innovative class that makes 4e very distinct from other editions of D&DPaladin (Defender) - Having a second Defender in your base rules is a good idea, and the Paladin is the one that feels right to me for the base gameWarlock (Striker) - I like Warlocks, so sue me ;) But 4e was really where the Warlock class came into its own, and I personally think a 4e without a Warlock in it wouldn't feel "right"The last class is the hardest for me - arguably another controller would be the "correct" answer and the Druid would be the "right" one for ties to previous edition reasons. But I personally think the 4e Druid class had a bit of a lack of focus to it and arguably it's going to be more complex to tackle a clone of it and it might be better to hold off on it for later. I feel like Ranger might be the actual "correct" choice even though it's another Striker role - I think the mechanics of a Ranger would be an easier lift than the 4e Druid for a first pass.
I only meant that if there was going to be 8 classes and Warlord was not going to be one them.I agree in that a 4e clone without it would just go against the spirit of the system.
 

Xeviat

Explorer
I voted for the 2E core, but I'd rather see the 5E core except merge the Sorcerer and Warlock and bring in the Psion.
 

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