4E with 1E Feel: Does that appeal to you?

[Henry]

Step 4: Abolish Minions

Step 8: Effects will exist that can possibly remove you from combat longer than 1 round. It will no longer take 2 hours to chew through 8 kobolds so you won't be stuck THAT long.

Thats a start. What next?

I'm curious: Why do #4 if you want #8? Other than that, I can understand the rest of the list.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'd much rather see Clark and his peeps work on products for old school systems.

Me too. It doesn't even have to be exclusively "old school." For example, consider the approach of Goodman Games. They're putting out 4E products, but they have 1e compatible DCCs, too. (As well as some excellent systemless books like Points of Light.)

 

[ExploderWizard]

I'm curious: Why do #4 if you want #8? Other than that, I can understand the rest of the list.

Becuause I couldn't run a game with a hill giant or balor minion and
keep my self respect.

 

[Cadfan]

Becuause I couldn't run a game with a hill giant or balor minion and
keep my self respect.

*drinks another shot*

 

[Psion]

One of the main reasons that 4e holds little appeal to me is that it doesn't seem to possess the characteristics that define D&D. A large part of those characteristics are characterized by the "1e feel"-type items.

So yeah. Re-inserting some elements that were apparently willfully expunged by the 4e design team would perhaps make 4e worth another look to me.

 

[ExploderWizard]

For the love of all things holy, NO!! Its taken thieves/rogues nearly 35 years to become a competent character in combat. Fighters take the fight to the enemy. Mages cast destructive spells, clerics heal and buff (as well as fling their own destructive spells). Thieves? Well, they are play occasional archer (hitting less than 50% of the time) or sneak-attacker (of which they have neither the hp nor AC to survive in melee against monsters made to challenge fighters).

My reward? I get to solo-game with the DM whenever I go on a thief-y mission (scouting, stealing) while everyone else is bored. Weee!

Personally, I like the fact rogues became martial characters (not as strong as a fighter, but no wimp and easily equal to a cleric) who can go into melee with dodges, feints, and agile attacks as well as sneak, steal, do traps, and lie with the best of em.

Which is why its really better that the class as a whole go away and never show its face again. I just didn't want to get that radical right off the bat Give access to the "thief" skills to anyone who wants to spend the resources to learn them and be done with it. The idea of doing fireball class damage to an enemy just because he's flanked when the ultimate master of weapons, the fighter, has to crit just to come close. I won't even go into the silliness of melee concealment without magic.

The rogue as a thin skinned melee DPS class stinks of MMO's and needs to be purged in the purifying flame of reason

 

[cangrejoide]

*drinks another shot*

WAIT!!!

Am I missing an awesome drinking game?

Spill the details man!! I want in!!

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I have not read this whole thing as I am just gonna have my say.

4E to me has lost it's soul. It is no longer D&D any more then shadowrun is. The feel is gone the soul replace by another game. If they can make it feel like d&d again I may look into it. But as is I might as real run earthdawn system and call it d&d.

 

[phloog]

My take on 1e "feel" Chapter 1: Thieves...

oh wait...there are no thieves anymore. Back in the old days, thieves could backstab, but beyond that they were not a major combat force. With the emergence of the rogue, now all of the sudden Bilbo Baggins can pull out someone's esophagus, as long as he's got Balin flanking. Whatever happened to sneaking around and stealing stuff? Now there's still sneaking around, but it's typically for the purposes of eventual esophagectomy.

Chapter 2: Wizards...

...if you want something to 'feel' like 1e, regardless of whether or not you think that's a good thing, wizards can't be separate-but-equal in terms of combat. They get the big booms, but they aren't combatants.

 

[Remathilis]

Which is why its really better that the class as a whole go away and never show its face again. I just didn't want to get that radical right off the bat Give access to the "thief" skills to anyone who wants to spend the resources to learn them and be done with it. The idea of doing fireball class damage to an enemy just because he's flanked when the ultimate master of weapons, the fighter, has to crit just to come close. I won't even go into the silliness of melee concealment without magic.

The rogue as a thin skinned melee DPS class stinks of MMO's and needs to be purged in the purifying flame of reason

See, I still think rogue is a viable archetype. Characters like Fafihrd, Bilbo, Aladdin, Robin Hood, Antilicus, and such is a fun and worthy of playing. The problem with removing the thief/rogue class is that these characters become something... else. Fafhrd the magic-user? Bilbo the Fighter? I don't care how you give thief skills to them, they still end up awkward.

YMMV, of course, but Thief is too iconic to me to remove. Perhaps D&D wasn't born with it, but I think its stuck with it now.

(Grumble, Get rid my favorite class Grumble)