• COMING SOON! -- Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition! Level up your 5E game! The standalone advanced 5E tabletop RPG adds depth and diversity to the game you love!
log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D 4E 4E WotC way of saying your fired?

Zurai

First Post
Here's something for the "Oh, but they're still playtesting, how can they let the 3rd party companies have a copy of the rules?" people:

David Noonan just blogged that the core of the 4e rules are finished, as in not likely to be changed.

His exact words:

David Noonan said:
Which is why I'm glad that the core rules themselves are pretty much bedrock now.

So why can't they do a little 16-page (or whatever) mini-rules expose for the 3rd party publishers, again?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

The Little Raven

First Post
Grog said:
How could the playtest possibly be a PR campaign when everyone involved in the playtest is under an NDA?

And I don't think the guy gets that these playtest reports are simply from the blogger's game only, not the widespread RPGA/D&DI playtest that is occurring right now, so there's a lot more testing going on than it appears.
 

The Little Raven

First Post
Zurai said:
So why can't they do a little 16-page (or whatever) mini-rules expose for the 3rd party publishers, again?

Well, when they stated the October 5th deadline for the PHB material, they said they would still need to incorporate the playtest changes, so I don't expect them to have an actual final version of the game for a month or two.
 

Glyfair

Explorer
Zurai said:
David Noonan just blogged that the core of the 4e rules are finished, as in not likely to be changed.

From the context, I'm pretty sure we have yet another meaning for "core rules." It sounds like he means "the foundation rules, that everything else builds on."

Why not get a copy of those rules to 3rd party developers? For one, that takes time from the design and editing team. They have to figure out what rules are done and edit them in a document. Also, I'll wager that most publishers want stuff from the MM & DMG, that are still being worked on. If they do that, those people have to stop working on 4E.

I know Paizo knows how work gets prioritized and certain things are more important than others. If they forget, ask them when they are going to finish getting up the online supplements to the last 5 issues of Dungeon. Their stock answer is "we have to put thing that directly earn us money ahead of such things." I understand it, bit Erik seems to forget other companies have to consider that as well.
 

Zurai

First Post
Mourn said:
Well, when they stated the October 5th deadline for the PHB material, they said they would still need to incorporate the playtest changes, so I don't expect them to have an actual final version of the game for a month or two.

3rd party publishers don't NEED a final version of the rules. They just need a baseline so they know how the rules work in general.

Again, see my 2E->3E example: Paizo doesn't need to know that K: Nobility gives a +2 synergy bonus to Diplomacy, just that players can train skills as they go up in levels, and that skills can be used to define challenges in a mechanical manner (which wasn't present in 2E).
 

Glyfair

Explorer
Zurai said:
3rd party publishers don't NEED a final version of the rules. They just need a baseline so they know how the rules work in general.

Again, see my 2E->3E example: Paizo doesn't need to know that K: Nobility gives a +2 synergy bonus to Diplomacy, just that players can train skills as they go up in levels, and that skills can be used to define challenges in a mechanical manner (which wasn't present in 2E).

And then we end up with the early 3E products that only follow some of the rules (remember the Creature Collection issues?)
 


Gundark

Explorer
"I honestly trust and expect that 4.0 will allow us to do that, so my default assumption, to be frank, is that we'll convert whole hog to 4.0 at some point or another.

--Erik Mona"

That's a long rant just to come to this conclusion. 3.5 support until Feburary 2009? Looks like I won't be buying any Paizo product anytime soon. I really think that Paizo is hurting themselves by doing this. Many on the Paizo forums seem to be leaning to the anti 4e side, Erik seems to be swayed by this crowd (just by going off this particular rant for what it's worth). I know it's important to listen to your fan base, however I would like to think Paizo is listening to D&D as a whole rather than a few Grognards on their forums.
 

Glyfair

Explorer
Gundark said:
Looks like I won't be buying any Paizo product anytime soon.
I will. Their non-gaming specific stuff is great (Item Cards, Flip-Mats, Combat Pad). I already decided to pass on Pathfinder (too much money for something I really think are flooding the market).
 



Gundark

Explorer
Glyfair said:
Then again, maybe Erik has been buying the "4E is a MMORPG" stuff that has been flooding the forums. I know there is a vibe of that from the Paizo forums and staff. Erik seems to be taking the reasonable "wait and see" approach from most of his comments. However, when I see comments like those above I wonder whether those comments are the negativity affecting him, or whether that's how he really feels and the "wait and see" is just his corporate face.

I was disappointed by the whole MMORPG thing espically from a proffesional . People who have never played a MMORPG and yet complain that 4e is going that direction is foolish arguement. Those who have played both know that they are entirely different creatures.
 

Gundark

Explorer
Glyfair said:
I already decided to pass on Pathfinder (too much money for something I really think are flooding the market).

True, as well the AGe of Worms turned me off a bit on Paizo APs
 

helium3

First Post
The only part of 4E as described that sounds remotely like an MMO is how they're choosing to go about describing what roles the various classes fill. It's really not any different from older editions, other than being a little more explicit and logical in classifying various classes by function. My opinion is that any resemblance to MMO's is simply in how they've chosen to organized and present material in a way that is more comprehensible to new players, who've presumably played an MMO before.
 

Zurai

First Post
Gundark said:
That's a long rant just to come to this conclusion. 3.5 support until Feburary 2009?

How do you propose that they support 4.0 when WOTC won't let them see the 4.0 rules until beyond Paizo's publishing deadline?
 

Sundragon2012

First Post
Wormwood said:
THANK YOU!

For 20 years I thought I was the only one who was bored senseless by that module.

Nope, it was a dumb module 20yrs ago and it is dumb now. IMO it is NOTHING more than the nostalgia of a shared experience of fun as a child that makes craptacular modules like this a benchmark of D&D's good ol' days.

I loved D&D for the last 24yrs and have DM'd it for the last 22yrs. Recently I have moved to Mongoose's Conan D20 and True20. 4e has my interest and I look forward to it.



Sundragon
 

hazel monday

First Post
I don't feel fired by WOTC as much as I feel irrelevant to their decision making process.
Speaking as someone who has spent a considerable amount of money on their products,It does sting a little.
 

delericho

Legend
Grog said:
How could the playtest possibly be a PR campaign when everyone involved in the playtest is under an NDA?

WotC employee #1: "Okay, we want everyone participating in this fake playtest to generate tons of good PR for us! How can we best make sure they do that?"

WotC employee #2: "We could make them sign legally binding documents saying they can't talk to anyone about 4E?"

WotC employee #1: "Brilliant!"

I believe the argument is that Wizards are having a playtest because they have to be seen having a playtest, with lots of groups under NDA, and comments being taken in, and so on and so forth.

Under the conspiracy theory, Wizards would then duly consider the comments by shredding them individually.

At least, that's how I think the "this playtest is a PR stunt" theory works.

As you may have inferred, I don't agree with this line of thinking - I suspect instead that the playtest will change a number of the fine details of the game, although probably not any of the fundamentals (unless something truly game-breaking comes to light). After two years of development, I reckon Wizards are probably pretty confident in the way it works, and will be using the playtest as a final tune-up.

Or something like that.
 

The Little Raven

First Post
hazel monday said:
I don't feel fired by WOTC as much as I feel irrelevant to their decision making process.

Well, you're not being paid to make decisions for the company, so I don't really see why this should be a problem (aside from a false sense of entitlement).
 

Zurai said:
How do you propose that they support 4.0 when WOTC won't let them see the 4.0 rules until beyond Paizo's publishing deadline?

Well, it's beyond their publishing deadline for one of their products.

An important product to both their company and the fanbase, but still just one product.

I think that WotC's scheme may only be disadvantaging Paizo in particular, but I doubt it's meant to disadvantage anyone.

I don't have the numbers, but I would bet that Paizo is in a fairly uncommon situation with a product that will be produced sixth months from now, but that will involve a year long commitment.

Otherwise, it's now October. 4E isn't scheduled for full release till June. WotC is still doing testing. There were some kinks with the launch of 3E and third party publishers that, even though I fully believe they are committed to supporting the OGL to the hilt, I am certain they are loosing sleep trying to prevent.

From WotC's perspective it almost certainly does not make sense, as a general rule, to give out the rules to anyone just yet.

But, I hope, that give their respect for Erik and his importance to them as a company that they will be willing to make a special arrangement with him.

On the other hand, though, it might very well be in WotC's best interest to support Erik as he ushers out the 3.5 line with a bang. I can't think of a more capable hand for this, and given the differences between this edition launch and prior launches it might make very good sense for WotC to cushion the blow for all the people who have invested so much in 3.5.

As much as I, others, and WotC believe that 4E needs to come into being ASAP, 3.5 is a good game and worthy of a good send off.

Whether the best send off is a viking funeral or a trip to paradise farms is up in the air for me, but I don't think that 3E going down in flames in a death struggle with its son 4E would be good for anyone.
 

Level Up!

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top