D&D 4E 4e: You Are Dead to Me

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pawsplay

Banned
Banned
The Ubbergeek said:
You overreact and should wait for testing before doing a dramalord show.

'They killed the game, woe on them, bah!'

*rolls eyes.*

You're right. I don't know everything about the new game. But I already know I don't like enough things I would never intentionally play it. The fact that there may be other things that I like, or even more things to dislike, just does not have a lot relevance to me.

I could go on and on, I really could, about what I hate about the designs I've seen so far and reasons why they are going to affect the play experience. But I don't think that has a lot of relevance, either, least of all to myself. D&D 4e will sell mostly on what it does do, not what it does NOT, but there are people who are going to reject it.

Personally, I believe 4e marks a low point in design philosophy for D&D and history will not be kind. I could be wrong. My instincts are generally pretty good, though.
 

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Wolfspider

First Post
pawsplay said:
Personally, I believe 4e marks a low point in design philosophy for D&D and history will not be kind. I could be wrong. My instincts are generally pretty good, though.

So what do you think the problems are with the design philosophy?
 


The Little Raven

First Post
Hussar said:
Needs more cowbell.

MoreCowbell.jpg
 

The Little Raven

First Post
pawsplay said:
Personally, I believe 4e marks a low point in design philosophy for D&D and history will not be kind. I could be wrong. My instincts are generally pretty good, though.

That's funny, because I've always felt that the early editions lacked any kind of strong design philosophy, since they were a bunch of random systems haphazardly thrown together without thought to internal consistency.
 


AZRogue

First Post
I think you may be overreacting a bit. Remember, after people love 4E for a bit (and I think people will like to play the game, no doubt) they will come out with a book with extended rules for those people more interested in sandbox play and very detailed rules systems.




It will be called AD&D 4th Edition.

I have Amazon set up to email me when it becomes available for pre-order. ;)
 

Gloombunny

First Post
I still don't understand why so many old-school players think it's a big deal that they aren't going to play 4e and that we all need to be informed of it.

I mean, everyone has their preferences and that's totally cool, but you don't see me going around starting threads about how I'll never play a pre-3 edition of D&D - because I know nobody gives a crap.
 



Daniel D. Fox

Explorer
pawsplay said:
Wizards would zot people all day long.

This part I agree with. Likely, I will have to houserule that Cantrips can be usable at will as many times as the Wizard wants and At-Will powers will require 2 HP sacrifice per spell level to cast as I already implimented into my home games. This will help make up for the obvious limitations that At Will alpha strike abilities should have been capped at. Otherwise, what is to stop a bad player as a Wizard from Eldritch Blasting every cow, chicken and field mouse in and around backwater towns At Will, as many times a day as he wishes?
 


Mort

Legend
Supporter
Moniker said:
...This will help make up for the obvious limitations that At Will alpha strike abilities should have been capped at. Otherwise, what is to stop a bad player as a Wizard from Eldritch Blasting every cow, chicken and field mouse in and around backwater towns At Will, as many times a day as he wishes?

the real question is 1) why would you want to blast all those chickens and 2) who cares if you do?

A wizard can just as easily take a crossbow and shoot all those chickens or bad guys, the "magic blast" is mechanically identical it's just more "wizardly."
 

Daniel D. Fox

Explorer
Mort said:
the real question is 1) why would you want to blast all those chickens and 2) who cares if you do?

A wizard can just as easily take a crossbow and shoot all those chickens or bad guys, the "magic blast" is mechanically identical it's just more "wizardly."

Crossbows have bolt limitations. Eldritch Blast not only does more damage, but can be used without limitation.

Then again, there is nothing stopping a Fighter from simply slaughtering barnyard animals, either. I think I just cannot wrap my head around limitless usage of alpha strike magic from a game mechanics standpoint.
 


Simm

First Post
Um... what's alpha strike?

The only alpha strike I know is the one from mechwarrior which involoves firing every gun you have at once. Somhow I don't see wizards doing that too many times.
 

hong

WotC's bitch
Simm said:
Um... what's alpha strike?

The only alpha strike I know is the one from mechwarrior which involoves firing every gun you have at once. Somhow I don't see wizards doing that too many times.
Alternate terms: nova-ing, spiking. Unloading all your boom spells/abilities in one go, for maximum effect.

They do seem to have nerfed the spike in 4E. I wonder if this might impact the striker classes negatively, though. Those classes, especially the rogue, _should_ be about the spike.
 
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Wormwood

Adventurer
This thread displays a shocking lack or redtext.

I like 4e. 4e reflects the way I currently play D&D (not all RPGs mind you, just D&D).

Have fun in your future endeavors, but frankly I no longer find nerd rage that interesting.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Moniker said:
Crossbows have bolt limitations. Eldritch Blast not only does more damage, but can be used without limitation.

Then again, there is nothing stopping a Fighter from simply slaughtering barnyard animals, either. I think I just cannot wrap my head around limitless usage of alpha strike magic from a game mechanics standpoint.


You did say wizard not warlock - the wizards "at will" blast is a magic missile (at least from the 1st level characters) and at 2d4+5 it can't do much more than a crossbow bolt. The warlocks eldritch blast at 1d10+4 can't be that much more either. As for ammo limitations at low levels maybe, at high levels players always seem to find a way around it.

The 3.5 warlock showed that an at will eldritch blast (9d6 or so by 20th level) was not only not unbalancing it was underpowered.

Also - you keep using the term alpha strike: this implies a huge coordinated powerful attack, usually from surprise. If the PC's are doing that it's unlikely their using their not so powerful at will ability.

Frankly, if your comfortable with the level of magic that 4e seems to assume as standard I don't see the problem. If the level of magic is the problem, well that's a whole different criticism.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
Wormwood said:
This thread displays a shocking lack or redtext.

I like 4e. 4e reflects the way I currently play D&D (not all RPGs mind you, just D&D).

Have fun in your future endeavors, but frankly I no longer find nerd rage that interesting.

I was thinking the exact same thing. All the 4e previews are almost identical with my (Bo9S and complete mage reserve feat) current campaign.
 

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