D&D 4E 4E's "Proud Nails"

[billd91]

Varying numbers of dump stats for different characters
Skill challenge math

 

[keterys]

Monster hit points: too high.

Monster damage: too low.

Healing Surges: too many.

This is one of the most common complaints, but anecdotally based on the writing and playtesting I do for LFR, I'd often say the opposite...

Monster HP: Too low

Monster Damage: too high

Healing Surges: Not enough

Fights often don't last more than two rounds, in a flurry of monsters smashing PCs and PCs smashing monsters, and folks often use up half their surges in one encounter.

Notable when you want to do a 4 - 8 encounter day in particular.

 

[Someone]

Using the leader's healing word when resting to maximize hit points gained.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

It still bothers me that all roles have clear definitions and mechanics except for the controller. There are some great controller classes, but also some that are among the worst designs of this editions, and even one (the Bladesinger) which is mislabeled and should have been advertised as a striker.

Yeah, it'd be great to have a common shtick among controller classes. I think "-2 to the target's attacks" fits the bill nicely.

I always detested the 1-1-1-1 diagonals. (But, please, I don't want to rehash this particular argument.)

I'm a fan of hexes; they give me the best of both worlds!

Not that they're ever going to become official...

 

[BobTheNob]

I was reminded of the article in another thread, when discussing how the same monster could have different game statistics when encountered at different levels (e.g. the same ogre could be a solo for a level 1 party, an elite for a level 4 party, a standard monster for a level 8 party and a minion for a level 12 party). That's one "proud nail" for me.

Really? I love that idea.

Then again, alot of the thing other people loved about 4e were nails for me. I accept that opinions vary.

Using the leader's healing word when resting to maximize hit points gained.

Using the leader's healing word when resting to maximize hit points gained.

We house-ruled that you couldn't end a short rest under 75% hp if you had a surge to spend. It not only made sense from a RW POV (Just how do you NOT spend a HS? Jump up and down vigorously? If your hurt your going to sit down and take a breather given a chance, and a short rest represented a chance) it also nailed the "I dont spend a HS and wait till the healer has a XXX ready to cast".

Now, as to 4e nails

- Same Sameness of classes
- Reliance on gear (pre DMG2)
- +to all every half level
- The oddness of skill DC
- Multiclassing
- Some aspects of the power structure (To me 4e's greatest success, but aspects of it's implications bugged me)

 

[Rune]

Milestones. Hate them. Gave up keeping track and just let everyone use an action point every encounter. Less fiddly, and didn't break anything.

Clearly you didn't run a paragon-tier game for a party of power-gaming warlords.

Really, though, the implementation could have been smoother.

 

[Truename]

I've been DM'ing 4e exclusively since it came out. I like it. But nothing's perfect. Here's my list:

- Verisimilitude and player narration of powers. You did what again? Pulled him three squares and then when he makes a save, he takes damage? Okay, but what just happened in the game world?

- Paragon paths and epic destinies. Strong fluff, great. How do I tie that into my gameworld fiction? How do I foreshadow it?

- Too many feats & obsolete feats. And too fiddly and inconsequential. Grrr.

- Condition tracking in combat. But I wouldn't want to give up the tactical depth we get in 4e. (First time I've ever enjoyed D&D combat.)

- Skill challenges. Never really figured them out.

- And I'll second the annoyance of tracking milestones.

 

[GX.Sigma]

Clearly you didn't run a paragon-tier game for a party of power-gaming warlords.

Really, though, the implementation could have been smoother.

They could have just had you gain an action point each encounter, but not for the first encounter each day. Wouldn't that work?

 

[Drowbane]

- Verisimilitude and player narration of powers. You did what again? Pulled him three squares and then when he makes a save, he takes damage? Okay, but what just happened in the game world?

This for just about every Power in the game.

I joined TarionzCousin's 4e group when they were level 12. My Sorc's favorite power was Blazing Starfall (thats right, a lvl 1 at-will). I used feats to boost that power until it was my most effective combat power. Around level 16 I was doing something like 1d4+37 as a Burst 2, that slide all targets 1 square. Not quite Striker damage, but decent for 4e (I think).

Sadly, few of my other powers were interesting enough to consider using on a given round. Exceptions being Devour Magic (highly situation, but Dispel is always handy when you need it) and Sorcerous Sirroco - another low level power worth far more than some of its higher level counterparts.

My point? The Power System was for me a proud nail. Sure the game "worked", but damn did it play strangely...

 

[Dice4Hire]

The math treadmill. The holy thou-shalt-not-deviate math treadmill. If you always fight equal level brutes, your success number will not change more than one point plus or minus the whole game.

+1 items. I am so tired of plus one items

Essentials. Some people loved it, but make it compatible with what went before,especially if the non and essentials are technically the same class.

And more

But I still like 4E.