[4th ed] Clockwork Horrors now DEMONS? And Neogi...

[MrMyth]

In fact, one of the things that Demonomicon talks about is that the process of becoming a Demon Lord involves several stages. One of those is the claiming of their Abyssal domain, which involves imposing their will on the reality around them, and the realm then changes to become their own. It might be a twisted, destructive realm of madness, but there is still a level of creation and imposed order there.

I still think the idea of a demon lord that designs out of instinct and madness is a perfectly serviceable explanation for the creation of a Clockwork Horror. I even realized we've actually seen things along those lines at least in past editions - Baphomet's 'Tower of Science' where he breeds monstrosities and experiments on living things.

The fact that he is doing 'science' doesn't mean he is going about it purely on logic and reason. They are twisted, tortured experiments - some born from cruelty alone, some to simply see, out of raw curiousity, what terrible result will be born from his work.

And if mad demonic science can be done with organic subjects, I see no reason it couldn't happen with clockwork subjects as well.

 

[Klaus]

Demons are destruction and chaos incarnate, yes.

But never, in any edition, has that meant that they cannot be patient or methodical about it. Most aren't, sure. Most lack the capacity. But not all.

Since the days of 1st edition, the demon princes have engaged in convoluted, byzantine schemes that take centuries or millennia to play out. (Look, in particular, at Orcus's various plans.) They've created servitors. They've built strongholds.

Entropy can be a gradual process, but it's an inevitable one. I don't see any contradiction in the idea of a few specific demons taking the same approach. Sure, I wouldn't want it to be common, but neither is it impossible.

Plus, the idea of a demon lord of alchemy and tinkering is just damn cool. I haven't read Demonomicon yet, but if the writers aren't planning to expand on said demon lord themselves in the future, I may have to myself...

But if you dislike the idea of a demon sitting around patiently crafting, consider this alternative:

You have a layer of the Abyss full of bits of broken machinery and rusting metal. (It is, after all, just another form of devastation.) The lord of this domain has learned to create servitors purely by commanding/reshaping the realm around him, as many other demon lords do. But because his domain is full of broken machinery, the servitors he creates are machinery--not because he sat down to craft them, but because that was the raw material he had to work with when he animated his surroundings.

Same result, different process.

And there you have it, folks! Modrons as modremons!

 

[Henry]

Just a quick note to say there are some BEAUTIFUL ideas in this thread. Perverted and twisted, but beautiful, nonetheless.

I really need to archive this on my home PC when I get a chance. Kudoes to everyone the last seven pages.

 

[The Little Raven]

I don't have a copy of the Demonomicon myself (what's next, the Devilomicon? The Primordinomicon?)

Demonomicon is a name with history in D&D.

A book on devils would probably be called the Codex of Betrayal and one on primordials would probably be Lords of Chaos (both after the articles about the same protagonists).

Jagged bits of scrap metal death held together by sheer chaos and demon spit.

I see demonic machinery as machinery that SHOULDN'T work, but it still does. It's always on the verge of breaking down, sending off showers of sparks, horrendously grinding, rattling it's bolts loose... but it never crosses that line, so long as its purpose is destruction.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And what happens to you when you DO get killed by the clockwork horrors. Hmmmm, I think Haagenti might like to experiment with some human/clockwork integration. Oh yeah, demonic horrors indeed, bwaaahhhaaahaaha.

Oh, yeah, Mouse, there's definitely a BIT more on Haagenti in Demonomicon. He's got a (very briefly described) layer of the Abyss and a few other call-outs here and there. No firm details or stats or anything like that, but there are some useful hooks. I get the impression he's set up to be a potentially major player in the Abyss. I think there was also a mention of other material about him that didn't make the cut. The implication was they did do a full writeup on him but it just didn't make the page count. I bet we see a Dragon article on him pretty soon.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But if you dislike the idea of a demon sitting around patiently crafting, consider this alternative:

You have a layer of the Abyss full of bits of broken machinery and rusting metal. (It is, after all, just another form of devastation.) The lord of this domain has learned to create servitors purely by commanding/reshaping the realm around him, as many other demon lords do. But because his domain is full of broken machinery, the servitors he creates are machinery--not because he sat down to craft them, but because that was the raw material he had to work with when he animated his surroundings.

Same result, different process.

Yeah...but no.

I mean, its very creative, but I still can't get into a creature that embodies chaos creating something so intricately ordered as a clockwork horror by force of will & "want-to." That is completely at odds with every description or illustration of the Horrors throughout the editions.

HOWEVER...

I could totally see this as an origin story of a related creature called a Scrapheap Horror which was created from the remains of destroyed constructs...and as a result, vary greatly in number of limbs, kinds of attacks, etc.- each being essentially unique.