4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

Hey all! :)

Upper_Krust said:
Godflayer Parasite Level 30 Minion
Infant Unguis
Medium Immortal Aberration XP 4000
Initiative +20 Senses ?
HP 1 Bloodied -
Resist 15 Cold
AC 48 Fortitude 43 Reflex 45 Will 42
Speed 8 Spider Walk
:melee: Virulent Bite (standard, at-will)
+39 vs. AC; 10 damage and ongoing 10 virulent poison (each save reduces by 5). Poisoned targets who reach 0 hp explode; Close burst 1; infecting those around them with an ongoing 10 virulent poison damage (each save reduces by 5).
:ranged: Leap (standard, recharge :5: )
Reach 8; +39 vs. Reflex; 10 damage and targets are prone (save ends) plus Follow-up "Virulent Bite".
Swarm
The Godflayer Parasite gains a +2 bonus to attack when adjacent to at least one other Godflayer Parasite.
Alignment Unaligned Languages Unknown
Skills Not sure yet
Str 16 (+18) Dex 20 (+20) Wis 14 (+17)
Con 16 (+18) Int 4 (+12) Cha 14 (+17)
 

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I'm going to gague the wingless godflayer by the DMG guide alone. The guide does say that you can deviate from it, but that you'll get a "good approximation" for following it. So here's what you'd do if you followed the guide.

Upper_Krust said:
Wingless Godflayer Level 35 Solo Brute
Infant Gargouille
Titanic Immortal Aberration XP 200,000
Initiative +22 Senses ?
Initiative is correct, as far as I can tell. Senses should at the very least include Perception, which will be either +22. or +27, depending on if you train it or not. You might want to give it some other vision type too, of course.

Upper_Krust said:
HP 2000 Bloodied 1000

Oddly enough, HP should be 1640

The official formula for solo monsters of ANY role is ((Level + 1) * 8) + Constitution

This is odd because Brutes normally get 10 + Con + (Level * 10), and elites take this value and multiply by two AND add an additional 2*Con, but... I dunno. This is what the DMG says. All the MM HP values go by this, at any rate.

Upper_Krust said:
Resist All 15
AC 51 Fortitude 37 Reflex 27 Will 27

Unless you're going by an entirely different system (I bet you are), Your defenses are a bit too low.

The way it's supposed to work is that the average defenses for any brute are level+12, modified up or down by ability scores. The modification isn't based on your absolute ability score, but rather it's "deviation from the average". The average ability score is 13+one half level, which in this case, is 30. Then you modify the defenses by deviation from that. (Note: the primary attack stat should be 3 higher, but that doesn't effect this formula)

So, Average defense is 47. Average ability for a level 35 monster is 30. Every 2 points above or below that should grant +1 or -1 to the defense. Solo monsters also get +2 to any three of the four defenses. So with your given stats, AC should be 47 or 49, Fort should be 52 or 54, Reflex should be 42 or 44, and Will should be 42 or 44.

Upper_Krust said:
Action Points 2
Speed 12 Swim 16

Oddly enough, speed guidelines aren't actually given at all in the DMG.

Upper_Krust said:
:bmelee:Virulent Bite (standard, at-will)
Reach 8; +39 vs. Reflex; 2d10+17 damage and ongoing 20 virulent poison (each save reduces by 5). Poisoned targets who reach 0 hp explode; Close burst 1; infecting those around them with an ongoing 10 virulent poison damage (each save reduces by 5).
:area:Stomp (move, at-will)
Reach 12; +39 vs. Reflex; Burst 4; 2d10+17 damage and targets are prone (save ends) plus Follow-up "Squish" all targets still prone take 2d10+17 damage when the Wingless Godflayer moves again or makes another Stomp.
:close:Tail Flail (immediate when injured, at-will)
Reach 16; +39 vs. Reflex; Blast 8; 2d10+17 damage and targets are stunned (save ends) and pushed 8 squares.

Damage... I'm not sure, as the chart tops out at 3d8+10 for medium damage, and 4d8+10 for high damage. The chart also makes little sense to me... usually, every fourth level gets another +1 to damage and every eighth level gets a dice increase, but sometimes this doesn't happen for whatever reason, and sometimes d8s increase to d10s, but more often d8s go to d6s. I guess 1d8 goes to 1d10, while 2d8 always goes to 3d6? It's weird.

Eyballing it, I'd say standard damage for level 35 should be (low) 2d6+12, (mid) 4d6+12, and (high) 5d6+12 (or maybe +11, for no apparent reason)

On the other hand, these standard damage values get modified in the MM monsters for reasons I'm not entirely clear on. The Tarrasque, after all, uses d12s!

Limited (as in, limited use ability) damage charts are also screwy, mostly going from d8s to d10s, but tossing in some d12s and d6s seemingly at random. The +x bonus increases or doesn't increase at random, again. Even so, I'd guess the level 35 continuation would be: (low) 5d8+11, (mid) 6d10+11, (high) 6d12+11

The attacks should be +38 vs AC, and +36 vs anything else... +36 and +34 (respectively) vs multiple targets.

As an additional note on stomp, I don't think you're allowed to do "Make prone (save ends)". If they were made prone and stunned (save ends), that would work for your purpose.

Upper_Krust said:
Infestation (when first bloodied, encounter)
20 Parasite Minions are freed from the Wingless Godflayer's crust.

Great Leap (standard, recharge :5:)
Reach 32; +39 vs. AC, Close Burst 16; 4d10+17 and targets are stunned (save ends).

Why just increase the reach? Shouldn't this be part of a move instead? There's lots of powers that involve moving, after all. Also, don't you mean recharge :5::6:? Or just :6:?

Upper_Krust said:
:close:Feeding Tubes (standard, recharge :5:, immediate action if reduced to 0 hp provided ability is charged)
Reach 16; +39 vs. AC; All targets in reach; 2d6+17 damage and Wingless Godflayer heals 20 damage for each successful attack.
:close:Frightful Presence (standard, encounter) *Fear
Close Burst 50; targets enemies; +29 vs. Will; the target is stunned until the end of the the Wingless Godflayer's next turn. Aftereffect: The target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends).

Close burst 50? For a Level 30 Gargantuan Dragon (red), it's 10! I guess the increased range could be seen as offsetting the low attack, but still!

Upper_Krust said:
Collapse (when reduced to 0 hp, at-will)
All occupied squares; +39 vs. Reflex; 6d10+17 damage and targets are stunned and prone (save ends both)
Alignment Unaligned Languages Unknown
Skills Not sure yet
Str 44 (+39) Dex 20 (+27) Wis 20 (+27)
Con 40 (+37) Int 5 (+20) Cha 20 (+27)

No real comment at the moment.

Hope this helps. I realize that there's a GREAT amount of leeway from the guidelines, and they aren't NEARLY as comprehensive as you, but one still should probably be in this ballpark.
 

Upper_Krust said:
I'd probably have prefered if they just gave it a breath weapon. However, I wonder if they made the Tarrasque the abomination of Earth deities? Thus giving it a reason why it would have such a gravitic aura.

Sorry I missed this before.

Not... precisely. It was created by primordials in order to destroy the works of the gods, but it's tied to the world in some significant way, which is why you have to get it off world to kill it. It's type is "Gargantuan elemental magical beast"... so it is significantly earth based.

Ported to the Krustiverse, it's definitely an abomination of an earth deity. In order to match it with the WotC flavor though, that means there needs to be some ability for primordials to have that can create an abomination from a foe deity, against that deity's will.
 

Hi Fieari mate! :)

I made some changes last night but didn't get them finished, been suffering a little bit with a cold these past few days. :(

Fieari said:
I'm going to gague the wingless godflayer by the DMG guide alone. The guide does say that you can deviate from it, but that you'll get a "good approximation" for following it. So here's what you'd do if you followed the guide.

Okay.

Initiative is correct, as far as I can tell. Senses should at the very least include Perception, which will be either +22. or +27, depending on if you train it or not. You might want to give it some other vision type too, of course.

Darkvision I suppose.

Oddly enough, HP should be 1640

The official formula for solo monsters of ANY role is ((Level + 1) * 8) + Constitution

This is odd because Brutes normally get 10 + Con + (Level * 10), and elites take this value and multiply by two AND add an additional 2*Con, but... I dunno. This is what the DMG says. All the MM HP values go by this, at any rate.

Its possible they don't want the numbers to deviate too far from one another. I think the difference between a Solo Lurker and a Solo Brute could be 600+ at 30th-level.

Unless you're going by an entirely different system (I bet you are), Your defenses are a bit too low.

I don't know what system I was going by. :D

The way it's supposed to work is that the average defenses for any brute are level+12, modified up or down by ability scores. The modification isn't based on your absolute ability score, but rather it's "deviation from the average". The average ability score is 13+one half level, which in this case, is 30. Then you modify the defenses by deviation from that. (Note: the primary attack stat should be 3 higher, but that doesn't effect this formula)

So the Tarrasque average is 28, then you add your ability scores, with a potential maximum of +14 (at 30th) to two scores. So a potential 42 is possible. Although you say the Primary attack should be 3 Higher which makes one stat a potential 45.

Following the same formula the Wingless Godflayer would have an average score of 30 (13 + 17), with a potential maximum of 47 or 50 to a Primary stat.

So, Average defense is 47. Average ability for a level 35 monster is 30. Every 2 points above or below that should grant +1 or -1 to the defense.

It all makes sense now.

Solo monsters also get +2 to any three of the four defenses. So with your given stats, AC should be 47 or 49, Fort should be 52 or 54, Reflex should be 42 or 44, and Will should be 42 or 44.

Are you sure that shouldn't be +5? I mean surely Elites get +2 already?

Oddly enough, speed guidelines aren't actually given at all in the DMG.

Weird. Trying to recollect how fast the Clover monster moved but I'll probably need to see the movie again. Would such a monster move its entire body length in 6 seconds?

Theoretically a Titanic sized monster should occupy a space of 32 squares which is 160 feet, although I think that would be for a Titanic 'tall' monster. Clover was 250 feet tall and easily as broad/deep as its height. So I'd say 48 squares for it.

Damage... I'm not sure, as the chart tops out at 3d8+10 for medium damage, and 4d8+10 for high damage. The chart also makes little sense to me... usually, every fourth level gets another +1 to damage and every eighth level gets a dice increase, but sometimes this doesn't happen for whatever reason, and sometimes d8s increase to d10s, but more often d8s go to d6s. I guess 1d8 goes to 1d10, while 2d8 always goes to 3d6? It's weird.

Eyballing it, I'd say standard damage for level 35 should be (low) 2d6+12, (mid) 4d6+12, and (high) 5d6+12 (or maybe +11, for no apparent reason)

I'm sure I'll have those charts decoded, extrapolated and extended before you know it. ;)

On the other hand, these standard damage values get modified in the MM monsters for reasons I'm not entirely clear on. The Tarrasque, after all, uses d12s!

I think part of the problem is that when they up the strength bonus above the average (28 for the Tarrasque) they have to reduce the die rolls to get the damage back to the old parameters - which seems somewhat self-defeating. Then again its possible that they factor special 'add-ons' into the monsters damage - such as the 15 ongoing damage you mentioned for the Tarrasque's bite.

Limited (as in, limited use ability) damage charts are also screwy, mostly going from d8s to d10s, but tossing in some d12s and d6s seemingly at random. The +x bonus increases or doesn't increase at random, again. Even so, I'd guess the level 35 continuation would be: (low) 5d8+11, (mid) 6d10+11, (high) 6d12+11

Does it suggest when to use which? Like Low damage if recharge :4: , Medium Damage if recharge :5: and High damage if recharge :6: ?

The attacks should be +38 vs AC, and +36 vs anything else... +36 and +34 (respectively) vs multiple targets.

Noted.

As an additional note on stomp, I don't think you're allowed to do "Make prone (save ends)". If they were made prone and stunned (save ends), that would work for your purpose.

Okay.

Why just increase the reach? Shouldn't this be part of a move instead? There's lots of powers that involve moving, after all.

Indeed.

Also, don't you mean recharge :5::6:? Or just :6:?

I meant 5 and 6.

Close burst 50? For a Level 30 Gargantuan Dragon (red), it's 10! I guess the increased range could be seen as offsetting the low attack, but still!

I was trying to think how far away you could see the monster from and Titanic is a lot bigger than Gargantuan.

Hope this helps. I realize that there's a GREAT amount of leeway from the guidelines, and they aren't NEARLY as comprehensive as you, but one still should probably be in this ballpark.

Thanks again.
 


Hey U_K! :)

Are you sure that shouldn't be +5? I mean surely Elites get +2 already?

Both Elites and Solos get the same +2 bonuses to three of the four defenses. However, Elites must allocate those bonuses to their strongest defenses while Solos have full leeway. ;)

I hope you feel better dude.
 

Fieari said:
Sorry I missed this before.

Not... precisely. It was created by primordials in order to destroy the works of the gods, but it's tied to the world in some significant way, which is why you have to get it off world to kill it. It's type is "Gargantuan elemental magical beast"... so it is significantly earth based.

Ported to the Krustiverse, it's definitely an abomination of an earth deity. In order to match it with the WotC flavor though, that means there needs to be some ability for primordials to have that can create an abomination from a foe deity, against that deity's will.

There is supposed to be a GREAT MOTHER TARRASQUE that spawned the tarrasques of the various celestial bodies.
 

Hi all! :)

Having a look over some of the Ability Scores from the new monsters, and it seems as though 13 + 1/2 Level may be the median line rather than a base average from which to apply further scores.

So for instance Orcus would have a median of approx. 29.

35, 33, 22, 25, 25, 30 = 28.3

Clearly its not 13 + 1/2 Level then add the standard by level ability boosts.

So presumably, for most monsters, if we increase one stat by one we must decrease another stat by the same amount.

I'm not sure where the extra +3 to primary score factors in on all this.

Orcus has +6 Str, +4 Con, +1 Cha, then -7 Dex, -4 Int, -4 Wis
 

Hi, Krust.

13 + 1/2 level is the "assumed score" for any monster of that level.

Ergo, a 33rd level monster would have an "assumed score" of 29. Any variance between the assumed score and the actual score has an effect on the tables that give you your averages, like attack bonus and defenses and whatnot.

So, when a Brute is Level + x vs. AC, that doesn't take into account exceptional scores. So, if you have a level 33 Brute with a 36 Strength, his attack vs. AC would be Level + x + 4 (difference between 29 and 36). Otherwise, all Brutes of the same level would be the same monster, regardless of stats.

At least, this is my interpretation of the table... that I haven't seen yet. ;)
 

Pssthpok said:
Hi, Krust.

Hey Pssthpok mate! :)

Pssthpok said:
13 + 1/2 level is the "assumed score" for any monster of that level.

Ergo, a 33rd level monster would have an "assumed score" of 29. Any variance between the assumed score and the actual score has an effect on the tables that give you your averages, like attack bonus and defenses and whatnot.

So, when a Brute is Level + x vs. AC, that doesn't take into account exceptional scores. So, if you have a level 33 Brute with a 36 Strength, his attack vs. AC would be Level + x + 4 (difference between 29 and 36). Otherwise, all Brutes of the same level would be the same monster, regardless of stats.

At least, this is my interpretation of the table... that I haven't seen yet. ;)

That all sounds pretty straightforward. The 'trick' as far as I can see is judging how far (or below) those averages you should go.

Its possible that the 13* + Level should really be the Maximum...as opposed to 13 + 1/2 level being the average.

*Or 16 Primary
 

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