4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[WarDragon]

Deities of fertility are not then rapidly spawning world-ending fiends,

For an even more minor point, this was fixed in the last or second-to-last Ascension update. Fertility gods can choose whether or not their children are divine at all.

 

[Center-of-All]

Hi Krusty!

You're right about the inclusion of heroes in the low thirtys being more satisfying, and sometimes I felt that the hero/quasi deity split was rather nitpicking it anyway.

Well, with Hestia and Persphone added to what you posted, we have your 20 most interesting/popular gods, and the heroes number 7 already, with only Orpheus (whom you've mentioned) and perhaps Daedalus (artificer class, perhaps?) notably absent. The only headscratcher I can think of is Dionysus' level, which is higher than I'd expect. Otherwise, all good.

And definately on including some greek monsters in your monster book. They'd put the II entry a bit too long if they were all there. I did notice the abomination thing, (though they're creations of both gods and primordials, which I'm increasingly thinking shouldn't be in the same 'advancement path'), but I still think that there is some aspect of portfolio left there, as Ltheb pointed out.

So, PC and monster stats for heroes, with just monster stats for gods? That would work, but I'm getting ahead of myself (or rather, ahead of you). Your first two would be the equivalent of Ascension and a bestiary, I assume? Hopefully you'll have enough room for 24x4 portfolios, and enough feats to fill those levels with. Ah, who am I kidding, you'll make room.

 

[shinmizu]

Zeus 48

Stats like that make me a bit curious. I've only read through the 4e corebooks a bit, but is an 18 level difference in the system truly as significant as the leap from a "top"-end mortal to a greater diety, or will you be modifying the progression system fairly heavily to enact such a power gap in place?

 

[Pssthpok]

Hey hey, UK.

The bonus is always equal to the average dice roll for the level group [...]

Any chance we can get an attachment with your figures on this? I'd do it myself, but I'm at work and bookless.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Ltheb mate!

Well, this is a minor point; They still are ~sortof~ portfolio based.

Blood Fiend = War? (Violence?); Phane = Time; Atropal = Death, Tarrasque = (Strength/Earth?); But they don't call them out as being specifically portfolio based, although they sort of are.

Thats almost like saying any monster is portfolio based though.

Balor = Fire, Vrock = Sky, Marilith = War etc.

Plus, I see this minor fluff change as a plus; One: Deities of fertility are not then rapidly spawning world-ending fiends,

As WarDragon noted, that was sorted and certainly won't be the same with 4E anyway.

and Two: It opens a few more doors with fluff and monster creation involving abominations.

I am sort of on my way to splitting Abomination from 'my' "God-spawn"*

*Formerly my abomination sub-name.

With God-spawn being monsters in the Exalted Tier and Abominations staying in the Epic Tier. I was going to use the term Godslayer and that would have more specifically been about unique individual monsters (from myth or elsewhere).

Abomination < Godslayer* < Entity < Anomaly

*Name may change...?

A god of the forge, for example, might specifically set out to build an Anaxim to destroy his enemies. He may later lose control of it, and it goes berserk, killing thousands. Or it may lie dormant in some old forgotten vault guarding an even greater treasure. But it is certain that if you want an anaxim in the game, you don't NEED to have it be an enemy of the deity who created it. (Though you most certainly still can)

Yes I was going to add that "Weapon created by the gods" was more relevant for certain abominations. Anaxim, Odium and Sadim off the top of my head.

 

[Belzamus]

Perhaps call them Deicides instead of Godslayers? Same effect but a little more esoteric/evocative I think.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Krusty!

Hola Amigo!

You're right about the inclusion of heroes in the low thirtys being more satisfying, and sometimes I felt that the hero/quasi deity split was rather nitpicking it anyway.

Possibly. Then again it was only ever me and Gary Gygax that treated hero and quasi-deities differently.

Well, with Hestia and Persphone added to what you posted, we have your 20 most interesting/popular gods,

Tentatively added to a very early list lets say.

While the chances are they probably will show up, I would like to have maybe one or two obscure immortals who are interesting from a roleplaying perspective. Pandora for instance.

and the heroes number 7 already, with only Orpheus (whom you've mentioned) and perhaps Daedalus (artificer class, perhaps?) notably absent.

The classes of the heroes would naturally have to be built from the 4E Players Handbook classes (until after PHB II is released and so forth).

I'd also probably prefer one hero to a class where possible.

Achilles (Fighter)
Agave (Cleric)
Arachne (Warlock)...reaching a bit with this one...any suggestions?
Circe (Wizard)...yes I know Sorceress would be better
Jason (Rogue)
Odysseus (Warlord)
Orion (Ranger)
Perseus (Paladin)

The only headscratcher I can think of is Dionysus' level, which is higher than I'd expect. Otherwise, all good.

You know its weird, he was the most powerful Greek immortal in the 1E D&Dg (after Zeus, Hades and Poseidon).

And definately on including some greek monsters in your monster book. They'd put the II entry a bit too long if they were all there.

Yes the Greeks had an immense amount of Immortal level monstrous opponents.

I did notice the abomination thing, (though they're creations of both gods and primordials, which I'm increasingly thinking shouldn't be in the same 'advancement path'), but I still think that there is some aspect of portfolio left there, as Ltheb pointed out.

Well I have realised now that Primordials are not above immortals in 4E but rather run parallel to them.

Immortals - from Astral Plane
Primordials - from Elemental Plane

As such my Tier 6 (51-60) will become the Sidereal Tier.

So, PC and monster stats for heroes, with just monster stats for gods?

Probably.

That would work, but I'm getting ahead of myself (or rather, ahead of you). Your first two would be the equivalent of Ascension and a bestiary, I assume?

Something like...

The Immortals Handbook
Gods & Monsters
Immortals Index: Greek Mythos
An Adventure (Levels 31-33)

Hopefully you'll have enough room for 24x4 portfolios, and enough feats to fill those levels with. Ah, who am I kidding, you'll make room.

I don't think I will have room for 24x4 Portfolios. I'm starting with the idea of a more realistic target of 16x4 and then expanding that if possible. So there will be at least 16, maybe 20, possibly 24.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello there Shinmizu!

Stats like that make me a bit curious. I've only read through the 4e corebooks a bit, but is an 18 level difference in the system truly as significant as the leap from a "top"-end mortal to a greater diety, or will you be modifying the progression system fairly heavily to enact such a power gap in place?

Not exactly sure what you are asking here.

Are you curious about the significance of a 'mere' 20 Level difference?

A 20 Level (lets round it up) jump in 4E is the difference between saving a town and saving the world. To me that seems pretty significant.

4th Edition does not follow an infinite level progression, and with regards the format it does follow, stretching out the levels too much would be a bad idea.

I want to make sure each new tier has loads of new powers, lots of new monsters to fight and plenty of new magic items/artifacts. But I can only create so many in whatever space of time I have. Theres no point in me spending 20+% of my time on elements that only 1% (or less) of people will use.

I also prefer to promote a bit more interaction between mortals and immortals, as well as between immortals and sidereals. So I'll be concentrating on the following tiers:

Epic (21-30)
Exalted (31-40)
Immortal (41-50)
Sidereal (51-60)

I may have NPCs of higher tiers (such as Time Lords) but I don't (initially at least) plan on having PC rules for Time Lords, simply because I don't think there is enough interest in such games and I don't think there would be enough monsters, enough powers, nor enough artifacts to make it interesting.

ANyway, hope that answers your question?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey hey, UK.

Hiya mate!

Any chance we can get an attachment with your figures on this? I'd do it myself, but I'm at work and bookless.

I'll post it up on my website over the next few days, hows that.

I changed my mind about adding a fourth column to the Limited Damage Expression Table after further research.

 

[Anabstercorian]

I may have NPCs of higher tiers (such as Time Lords) but I don't (initially at least) plan on having PC rules for Time Lords, simply because I don't think there is enough interest in such games and I don't think there would be enough monsters, enough powers, nor enough artifacts to make it interesting.

Probably wise. They were always more interesting conceptually than in implementation.