4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya, Krusty!

Hey there!

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some more immortals in the II entry, I don't think it would be a good idea to push out better known gods for them. This would be possible with more obscure religions, but the Greek one being so well known limits you somewhat, I think. Where would you put Pandora? The only myth I recall her from is the traditional Box myth, and I can't recall her being particularly inluential beyond that one event. Quasideity, perhaps?

I don't see the likes of Persephone too high on the list either.

While I can sympathize with your desire for one character per class, I'm not sure your most recent one would work as well. It'd be borderline criminal not to include Theseus, and while Bellopheron is less important, I've at least heard of him (who the heck is Agave? Nevermind, I'll look it up).

I simply thought to include the most iconic Greek Hero of each class. In which case Theseus and Bellerophon defer to Achilles.

It's a shame about the portfolio thing, but understandable. I'd like to see more Immortals Index entries before adventures, but I get why you want a little variety. I do think you need some sort of Nature porfolio (is this the Fey portfolio?), and probably a Love portfolio. Conversely, Swords seems a little superfluous with War there. Anyway, just some thoughts, have to go read the GSL, ciao!

I'll include more portfolios in later products.

I want half of the Portfolios to be capable of extending the Core Classes, or at least be fairly similar.

So a Fighter may chose the War portfolio, the Paladin may choose the Protection portfolio, etc. The Fey portfolio is the Warlock Fey Pact. Though I suppose a Warlock could always choose the Magic Portfolio.

Nature (in some capacity) will be a portfolio that comes out sometime after the Primal Power Source classes are revealed in the PHB II.

I may also change the Death portfolio to something else, until such time as there is a Necromancer class.

 

[Anabstercorian]

This might sound ridiculous, but you could probably sneak a 'Controller', 'Striker', 'Defender' and 'Leader' portfolio in there if you file the serial numbers off.

 

[Center-of-All]

Hiya, Krusty!

No, I wouldn't expect Persephone to be very high on the list, either. I did say I'd put her at 36-37, lower than any of your other 'real' deities. Up until yesterday, I'd been under the impression that Pandora was nothing more than a supremely unlucky (that's probably not the right word) mortal, no bells or whistles. Just wondering what you'd do with her.

And, ehhhhh, I'd say that Theseus just (and I mean just edges out Achilles in terms of icon status. If it wasn't for that Brad Pitt movie a while back, I'd say definately. Frankly, I also think that he'd be easier to do, as you don't have to worry about the heel bit, which could get messy.

And I'm very leery about the nicking off of 'important' portfolios. I just don't see many players wanting to stick with their predetermined class-based portfolio. I think Nature and Death, especially, would prove popular choices before looking at the list you'd make available. I understand wanting them to thematically gel better with WotC's products, but I'm not sure leaving them out is the right idea. I can't think of anything else right now though, beyond just updating the pdfs as the new material comes out.

The only thing in the GSL that makes me raise my eyebrow is the not being able to describe the process of the application of experience points thing. While expected (you couldn't do that in 3.X either), we don't have the benefits of WotC already providing us with an infinitely scaling XP chart. It might require some fancy wordplay to show the process beyond 30th and still remain in compliance.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya, Krusty!

Hello there!

No, I wouldn't expect Persephone to be very high on the list, either. I did say I'd put her at 36-37, lower than any of your other 'real' deities. Up until yesterday, I'd been under the impression that Pandora was nothing more than a supremely unlucky (that's probably not the right word) mortal, no bells or whistles. Just wondering what you'd do with her.

But shes got the box...thats way cooler than Persephone.

And, ehhhhh, I'd say that Theseus just (and I mean just edges out Achilles in terms of icon status. If it wasn't for that Brad Pitt movie a while back, I'd say definately. Frankly, I also think that he'd be easier to do, as you don't have to worry about the heel bit, which could get messy.

Theres no way Theseus edges out Achilles thats just crazy talk.

And I'm very leery about the nicking off of 'important' portfolios. I just don't see many players wanting to stick with their predetermined class-based portfolio.

On the contrary I see quite a few wanting expanded Class progression.

I think Nature and Death, especially, would prove popular choices before looking at the list you'd make available. I understand wanting them to thematically gel better with WotC's products, but I'm not sure leaving them out is the right idea. I can't think of anything else right now though, beyond just updating the pdfs as the new material comes out.

I simply won't be able to please everyyone with the Portfolios I chose or omit. Thats life.

The only thing in the GSL that makes me raise my eyebrow is the not being able to describe the process of the application of experience points thing. While expected (you couldn't do that in 3.X either), we don't have the benefits of WotC already providing us with an infinitely scaling XP chart. It might require some fancy wordplay to show the process beyond 30th and still remain in compliance.

Maybe Immortals will gain Quintessence.

 

[Center-of-All]

Heya, Krusty!

An empty box?* It's the myth behind it that's cool, and Persephone's is just as intriguing, IMO. Seasonal myths usually are.

You're probably right about Achilles/Theseus. I just know that when I think of Greek heroes, it's Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, in that order. Achilles is down with Bellopheron in the 'oh, yeah, him' bin. In other words, ignore me on this issue.

Yes, I worded my statement wrong. The jist is, "Nature" and "Death" are two absolutely classic portfolios. Every pantheon I can think of has a deity with one of these as it's primary concern, if it's not so omnipresent as to be associated with the entire pantheon. It's not about pleasing everyone, it's about getting the basics down, which these are.

And yes, Quintessence. At first I though there was no way that would fly, but on reflection the set up you have is probably different enough that you won't have problems.

*Yes, I know it still has hope in it in some versions of the myth. I don't count those versions

 

[Upper_Krust]

Heya, Krusty!

Hi there Center-of-All!

An empty box?* It's the myth behind it that's cool, and Persephone's is just as intriguing, IMO. Seasonal myths usually are.

Persephone...wasn't she in the Matrix movies or something...?

You're probably right about Achilles/Theseus. I just know that when I think of Greek heroes, it's Hercules, Perseus, Theseus, in that order. Achilles is down with Bellopheron in the 'oh, yeah, him' bin. In other words, ignore me on this issue.

Theseus is a load of bull.

Yes, I worded my statement wrong. The jist is, "Nature" and "Death" are two absolutely classic portfolios. Every pantheon I can think of has a deity with one of these as it's primary concern, if it's not so omnipresent as to be associated with the entire pantheon. It's not about pleasing everyone, it's about getting the basics down, which these are.

You know the more I think about it the more I don't really see a single all-encompassing Nature portfolio. Even in Ascension technically there is Moon (Animals) and Nature (Plants). So I still thik there will be at least that distinction...possibly more? Again I think under the circumstances it would be better to wait for the Players Handbook II.

And yes, Quintessence. At first I though there was no way that would fly, but on reflection the set up you have is probably different enough that you won't have problems.

Heres hoping.

*Yes, I know it still has hope in it in some versions of the myth. I don't count those versions

What about the Lara Croft, Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life version...

 

[Center-of-All]

Hello, Upper_Krust!

Wow, more bad puns than I can shake a stick at in this post.

I'm interested in the source of the animal/plant separation. Is there any specific mythical justification for the split? Most pantheons that I can think of have animals split among the various deities rather than concentrated in one, with the wilderness deity usually picking up any excess. Where'd it come from?

And you actually watched the Tomb Raider movie? :shudder:

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello, Upper_Krust!

Hiya mate!

Wow, more bad puns than I can shake a stick at in this post.

I'm interested in the source of the animal/plant separation. Is there any specific mythical justification for the split? Most pantheons that I can think of have animals split among the various deities rather than concentrated in one, with the wilderness deity usually picking up any excess. Where'd it come from?

To be honest I am not entirely sure.

I guess it was an attempt to give Druid deities more focus. Are they about controlling plants or are they about summoning animals or are they about shapechanging. I think 4th Edition Primal classes will make those distinctions.

And you actually watched the Tomb Raider movie? :shudder:

Always like to give these things a chance. The first movie had that great scene in the (Hindu?) Temple with all the animating statues. Also the scene where she takes on the soldiers in her own house was quite neat. Unfortunately the rest of the film didn't live up to that.

The second movie had those tree demon things which were quite interesting. But other than that - again pretty poor.

 

[Center-of-All]

Hiya, Krusty!

There were TWO of them?!?! :faints:

Either way, that seems reasonable. Unless plans have changed, we know that the 4E druid pretty much has this distinction made for him, as they said they've focused the class around shapechanging. Beyond that, we know we have the barbarian in the same source, and a shaman class that we know has ways of dealing with spirits. So there's a couple right there. Also, and don't take any stock in this, as its an almost complete guess, but I'd say there's some sort of Witch class in the book to deal with the whole nature magic angle. But we'll see what comes out.

Honestly, I don't watch enough movies to be able to afford to 'give them a chance.' I generally limit myself to ones I think will be at least good (so how did I get burned by three Star Wars movies in a row?). I've tended to avoid AJ action movies on that basis.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya, Krusty!

Hiya mate!

There were TWO of them?!?! :faints:

Indeed.

Either way, that seems reasonable. Unless plans have changed, we know that the 4E druid pretty much has this distinction made for him, as they said they've focused the class around shapechanging. Beyond that, we know we have the barbarian in the same source, and a shaman class that we know has ways of dealing with spirits. So there's a couple right there. Also, and don't take any stock in this, as its an almost complete guess, but I'd say there's some sort of Witch class in the book to deal with the whole nature magic angle. But we'll see what comes out.

Surely a Witch would be a female Warlock? I think the last Class for the PHBII may be the Wyrd.

Honestly, I don't watch enough movies to be able to afford to 'give them a chance.'

I'm getting that way myself!

I generally limit myself to ones I think will be at least good (so how did I get burned by three Star Wars movies in a row?). I've tended to avoid AJ action movies on that basis.

I love the last 45 Minutes of Attack of the Clones. To me thats up there with anything from the original trilogy.