4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Pssthpok]

There is utterly no reliance on online material. It's all supplemental material. Please understand that, if nothing else. You DO NOT need a computer to play 4th Edition; you need a computer to, as it is now, access online material.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

To convert to 4E or not is a big question... I really depends on how different 4E is to 3E. If it is more akin to a "3.75" but with Fighter replaced with Warblade, conversion is a simple process. But if its a totally different game, then a lot of change is in order. I guess we won't know until it comes out. (or until they release more info)

I think it would be best, for now, to stick with 3.5 and slowly transition into 4th if thats something you want to do. 4E seems like a step in the right direction, and hopefully they will keep everything I like about 3.5 without all that I hate (Darn you grapple mechanics!) So I certainly hope 4th edition is good. I personally am going to run 4E games the day it comes out, because I refuse to become my last DM who was stuck in 2E land and tried to run 3E without ever reading even the PHB! (Unless of course 4E sucks so bad it tanks it... Doubtful)

 

[jedrious]

The world is changing, whether people like it or not, and anyone that has a brain knows that 3.0/3.5 had alot of balance issues (like a Dex of 1, no ranks and wearing full-plate), there's a reason that CODzilla has been embraced as the strongest set of builds when realistically there should be one entry into the library of best builds for each class.

If WotC can balance out the archtypes with each other more power to them, and more fun to us. And look at it this way, in a world where you make a supplement for a system that someone else has control of, it's either conform or loose out on every new player that can't get ahold of the old editions, the only other option would be to have U_K create his own system from the ground up, and to force that responsibility onto him because there's some people that refuse to open their eyes to the future.

The best bet for you, U_K, is to get ahold of one of the publisher SRDs that all of the developers have confiremed will be available pre-release and start converting and prepare for a release date of July 2008

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys.

Before I get to replying I just want to say to dante you are going for a three day ban as soon as I work out how to do it or who I need to contact. This thread has already received multiple complaints, all due to your posts dante.

I just about tolerate your attitude on occasions. Attitude + profanity = ban.

I am also not happy with your name calling (specifically with regards Pssthpok). I know you two have your differences, and its not all been one way traffic in that regard, but even if referring to him as Captain Pssthpok was meant in a jovial manner, the fact that there has been bad blood between you two means that these things can be easily misinterpreted - so don't do it (It speaks volumes of the guy that he wasn't even one of those who complained).

Use your time off to think in future before you post and reflect on what you are doing when you make such posts.

1. These are family friendly boards, theres simply no need for such language, and it only makes you look immature.
2. The fact that you are posting like this in the Eternity Publishing forum reflects badly on me (and my reputation is sullied enough with my own procrastination I don't need someone elses help in that regard), which basically tells me you have little or no respect for me either.
3. I'm having to deal with this when I should be putting time and effort into something else.

I think everyone wil agree I have been pretty tolerant up to now. We are sort of out in the wilderness in the Eternity Publishing forum and a law unto our own. But enough is enough.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Ashardalon mate!

That information is somewhat outdated, and wrong. The evil, money-grubbing greed demons at WotC, for the third time, will be providing a free license, the OGL, and the SRD to fit, which be extension should also be free. The future of the d20 STL is still open, but since using it has become something of a negative, it might simply be abandoned. The license fee was an idea that was entertained, but dropped since it ultimately does not ensure quality products.

Link - http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=905801 This thread discusses and confirms (on a later page) the OGL status.

Thanks for the link (you too mercucio), thats great news!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi GQuail mate!

To be honest, after waiting a year from the "release date" of Ascension, the last thing I'd want to add in is /more/ reasons to require you to have to go back over old work rather than type up and release new stuff!

There's a worry here that you could end up the Duke Nukem Forever of the D20 world: acomputer game put on hold so many times that, every few years, they have to abandon all work and start again because their starting engine is so outdated it's useless. Considering how long the Immortals Handbook has been brewing, I'd far rather it just finally came out and was complete (even if it was for an outdated edition) than have me still waiting here a decade later for the final books, only to be told it's going to be 5E compliant now! ;-)

I know, I know, its just been a mess with circumstance upon circumstance getting in the way. All I can guarantee is that I won't make the same mistake again. In my defense, obviously it doesn't help me in any way, shape or form to have taken this long, so I hope you can take my word for it that the delays certainly haven't been done on purpose.

I would carry on with 3.5 for the moment. If nothign else, without seeing the new edition you can't tell (a) if it interests you, and the rest of your buyers; (b) how awkward 3.X to 4th Ed conversion will be; and (c) how the differing game world assumptions might affect your product.

Absolutely.

Theres no question that I will be sticking to 3.5 for the forseeable future.

But I am certainly intrigued by the possibilities for a simpler ruleset.

...and to address WarDragon here.

Again I don't think simpler means taking anything out, or a dumbing down. If anything it means more intelligent design. The best design is always the simplest mechanism after all. Coupled with the fact that each class should hopefully be better balanced, more fun and more relevant (especially at high levels), consider me intrigued.

As for buying every book twice, thats something I'll need to look into. Certainly the online model looks very interesting and I'd love the chance to play D&D online with you guys on a regular basis (something I already mentioned over at dicefreaks).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

It seems so, yes... perhaps a lean back towards the 3.0 DDG would be in order? While there were no HD limits, really, there were averages. Something like +10 maximum HD per tier (demigods could go to 40th, lesser deities 50th, and so on, with greater deities being able to reach as high as 70th level).

Thats my initial assessment, but I think I really need the system in my hands and then reverse engineer the whole thing before making a more accurate

Hmm, Epic Fighter being a special PrC? Interesting.
Next would be Divine Fighter, then Sidereal/Dimensional Fighter I assume?

How about this idea, instead of Class extensions after 30th (although I could have those too...?), we have 30-level Portfolio 'Classes' for immortals. Then for sidereals we have 30(?)-level Dimensional 'Classes'.

So you might have a 30th-level Fighter/30th-level War Portfolio/30th-level 'Matter' Mastery, or 30th-level Wizard/30th-level Magic Portfolio/30th-level 'Thought' Mastery etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi jareddm dude!

In terms of the Immortals Handbook, I think it's better to stick with 3.5. It is what we're familiar and knowledgeable about. Things become much more difficult, especially when it comes to editing, when not everyone is an expert and can spot a misplaced number on a stat block from 50 yards.

I also don't see any reason to switch the moment 4e comes out. Or ever really. When 3e was first coming out, there was still a fair amount of 2e material that was being thought up. I think this same overlap in material will occur well after 4e is released.

I'll certainly be sticking to 3.5 for the forseeable future, and even after 4E's launch for some period of time (at least until I have reverse engineered 4th Edition).

Even after that I plan to keep releasing 3rd (3.5) Edition material. I am just curious about the feasibility of releasing both 3.5E and 4E versions of the same products. Personally I don't see a problem with doing monster books like that, since the only difference would be the actual stat block itself. As regards other books, who can say until we have seen more of their system.

 

[jedrious]

Hiya mate!



Thats my initial assessment, but I think I really need the system in my hands and then reverse engineer the whole thing before making a more accurate



How about this idea, instead of Class extensions after 30th (although I could have those too...?), we have 30-level Portfolio 'Classes' for immortals. Then for sidereals we have 30(?)-level Dimensional 'Classes'.

So you might have a 30th-level Fighter/30th-level War Portfolio/30th-level 'Matter' Mastery, or 30th-level Wizard/30th-level Magic Portfolio/30th-level 'Thought' Mastery etc.

sounds good to start with, although I'd do 30th level "Base"/30 level "Ascension"(undergods) class/60 level "Deific"(gods) class/120 level "Dimensional"(sidereals) class/240 level "Transcendant" (Demiurges) class/infinately expandable level "Supernal"(Time/High Lord) class

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Axolotl!

Everybody calm down we all know that Dante says stupid things can we just either use reasoned arguements or just don't post anything. I currantly know nothing about 4ED as I've just been on holiday however. This does pose a serious problem for the Immortals Handbook. Moving to 4ED will help in the long run but it means redoing whats already been done, which is very bad.

As I mentioned yesterday, I don't think I would ever redo a book just for 4th Edition*. But what I might do is a 4th Edition monster book (Bestiary 2 - Don't worry there'll still be 3.5 version as well), and add conversions of Bestiary 1 in there).

*The lone exception might be an Ascension-type book.

Also how well intergrated are epic rules? If they are part of the core rules then hopefully they will learn from the mistakes of 3ED. However if there are no currant epic rules then Upper Krust will have to design some new ones, which will then be replaced by official ones causing everything to be redone again.

Well I would like to think I could come up with some cool 4E Immortals rules good enough that you would convert future WotC 30+ rules to my version rather than convert mine to theirs.

How easy will the immortals handbook be to cnvert to 4Ed that is the most important question.

Well all we know at this stage is that it uses levels, so at some basic level it must be somewhat compatible.

I think that all future work should be done in 4Ed however it would be advisable to wait till it comes for you to decide.

Absolutely. At this point we are just brainstorming out loud.