4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Fieari]

Can some of you guys with the books answer a few minor questions?

1) Does the Pit Fiend really have 351 hp?

Pit Fiend, Level 26 Elite Soldier: HP 486

For comparison...
Balor Level 27 Elite Brute, 624 HP (and explodes upon death)

2) What is the Level spread of the Dragon Age Categories? (The Young Red is Level 7 and the Ancient Red is Level 30, what level are the Adult and Elder versions - there doesn't seem to be an even breakdown)

Black 4, 11, 18, 26
Blue 6, 13, 20, 28
Green 5, 12, 19, 27
Red 7, 15, 22, 30
White 3, 9, 17, 24

3) How many Abominations in the Monster Manual? (We know about the Tarrasque, Atropal and Phane)

Abominations: Astral Stalker, Atropal, Blood Fiend, Phane, Tarrasque

The Tarrasque lacks regeneration! How could they? Dropping it to 0 only makes it sleep for a hundred years though. You can't kill it without luring it off plane first.

4) What sort of damage do the Balor and the Tarrasque deal and what are their Strength Scores?

Tarrasque: Is nasty. Level 30 Solo Brute. It solves the problem of being unable to fly by having an aura that makes fliers fall to within it's reach if they come within 200 feet of the thing. Its standard attack is +34 vs AC, 1d12+16 and ongoing 15 (save ends). It ignores all resistances. On a 5 or 6 it can recharge a fury attack, which does a standard attack AND either does +34 vs AC 3d12+16 and -5 to AC until the end of the tarrasque's next turn, or +32 vs Fortitude 3d12+16 and the target is pushed 4 and knocked prone. It can also trample, +33 vs Reflex, 1d12+16 and knocks prone.

When bloodied, it attacks with a standard attack against everyone within reach at once.

Strength score is 42 (+31)


Balor: Sword is +32 vs AC 2d10+10 lightning, 3d10+30 lightning on crit
Whip is +30 vs Reflex 3d8+5 fire and ongoing 5 fire (save ends), and target is pulled to a space next to the balor.

It's standard attack uses both at once. If it misses, once per encounter it can reroll with a +5.

Strength score is 30 (+23)

 

[Fieari]

Starts to make much more sense now - I thought he was a bit weak. I guess this 'summoning' is akin to the Pit Fiend being accompanied by War Devils and Legion Devil Legionaires?

Also can you confirm is that 2 atropals and 8 lich vestiges or two from the following choices?

1 Atropal (Level 28 Elite Brute)
4 Lich Vestiges (Level 27 Minion?)

Also these extra creatures could account for his lowered hit points - just as the Pit Fiend should have 486 by the rules but may have 351 due to its summoned monsters.

I wonder do the books explain how this lowering of hit points works for summoned creatures or will I have to work it out?

It is clearly stated (typing straight from the page)

Level 34 Encounter (XP 225,000)
* Orcus (level 33 solo brute)
* 2 atropals (level 28 elite brute)
* 8 lich vestiges (level 26 minion)

Also, the pit fiend DOES have 486 hp, as already said, so there doesn't seem to be any rules for lowering hp. Orcus has an aspect stated out here. Basically, priests can make a slightly weaker clone of the big guy that acts like Orcus, but has no psychic connection to the real thing. Orcus doesn't even know when an aspect is created.

Orcus has exactly the amount of HP the DMG says he should have by the formulas.

 

[historian]

Thanks for posting that stuff Fieari, most appreciated.

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

Howdy historian mate!

Looking at the Dwarf, as soon as Orcus lays the smackdown with the Death Touch dropping the dawrf to 0hp, the dwarf immediately gains 106 hit points - the dwarf can do this twice per day!

Once that runs out the dwarf has another immediate action to regain 63 hit points. Plus half a dozen other abilities which seemingly use minor actions to regain about 20-30 more hit points.

Orcus basically has to drop the dwarf to 0 hit points four times before he'll get the confirmed kill as far as I can see. Thats before taking into account the party cleric, potions of life (full hp?) and healing surges.

Remember Orcus is meant to be a solo challenge for five 33rd-level PCs.

If the dwarf crits using a daily power he could end up dealing some insane amount of damage 4d10* + 80 + 9d12*...about 200 points is not out of the question.

re-rolling all 1's and rolling an additional die if you roll the die's maximum.

So to answer your point, I don't think Death Touch is transcendental, far from it.

I also think Orcus has the wrong hit points, he should have about 1865 not 1545.

Wow, I hadn't seen the level 30 Dwarf. The ability of characters to heal themselves can't be underestimated in 4e.

That said, Touch of Death is a nasty, nasty thing. Doing one-half hit point damage on a miss?

It seems to me that, based on what I have seen at this point and i reserve the right to change my mind, that these 4e characters and creatures are receiving much more powerful and perhaps interesting abilities at lower levels than in 3.5.

 

[Fieari]

That said, Touch of Death is a nasty, nasty thing. Doing one-half hit point damage on a miss?

The 1/2 hp damage can be resisted, or you can be immune to it altogether. There's a paragon level artifact, for instance, that can make you resist any three energy types you want, and change them every round. I haven't gone through all the equipment yet, but it seems to me that getting resistance shouldn't be out of the equation, and even immunity is likely possible.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Rolling in Clover...

Something I was mucking about with last week...

Wingless Godflayer Level 35 Solo Brute
Infant Gargouille
Titanic Immortal Aberration XP 200,000
Initiative +22 Senses +22 Darkvision
HP 1590 Bloodied 795
Resist 15 All
AC 52 Fortitude 52 Reflex 52 Will 52
Action Points 2
Speed 16 Swim 16
Virulent Bite (standard, at-will)
Reach 8; +38 vs. Reflex; 4d10+12 damage and ongoing 20 virulent poison (each save reduces by 5). Poisoned targets who reach 0 hp explode; Close burst 1; infecting those around them with an ongoing 10 virulent poison damage (each save reduces by 5).
Stomp (move, at-will)
Reach 8; +38 vs. Reflex; Burst 5; 4d10+12 damage and targets are prone (save ends) plus Follow-up "Squish" all targets still prone take 4d10+12 damage when the Wingless Godflayer moves again or makes another Stomp.
Tail Flail (immediate when injured, at-will)
Reach 12; +37 vs. Reflex; Blast 6; 5d10+12 damage and targets are stunned and prone (save ends) and pushed 8 squares.
Infestation (free, when first bloodied, encounter)
20 Parasite Minions are freed from the Wingless Godflayer's crust.
Great Leap (standard, recharge , )
Reach 32; +38 vs. AC, Close Burst 16; 6d10+12 and targets are stunned (save ends).
Feeding Tubes (standard, recharge , , immediate action if reduced to 0 hp provided ability is charged)
Reach 16; +38 vs. AC; All targets in reach; 2d10+12 damage and Wingless Godflayer heals 20 damage for each successful attack.
Frightful Presence (standard, encounter) *Fear
Close Burst 40; targets enemies; +36 vs. Will; the target is stunned until the end of the the Wingless Godflayer's next turn. Aftereffect: The target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends).
Collapse (when reduced to 0 hp, at-will)
All occupied squares; +36 vs. Reflex; 8d10+12 damage and targets are stunned and prone (save ends both)
Alignment Unaligned Languages Unknown
Skills Not sure yet
Str 34 (+29) Dex 20 (+27) Wis 20 (+27)
Con 30 (+37) Int 5 (+20) Cha 20 (+27)

I am sure there are a few mistakes, but I thought it was okay for a first attempt. Any comments?

I'll have the parasites typed up later today. If you guys with the books can spot any mistakes or suggest some skills I'll post it up on the website tonight.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Fieari mate!

Pit Fiend, Level 26 Elite Soldier: HP 486

For comparison...
Balor Level 27 Elite Brute, 624 HP (and explodes upon death)

What is the damage when it explodes?

Black 4, 11, 18, 26
Blue 6, 13, 20, 28
Green 5, 12, 19, 27
Red 7, 15, 22, 30
White 3, 9, 17, 24

I suppose they just wanted a greater spread at the higher levels.

Abominations: Astral Stalker, Atropal, Blood Fiend, Phane, Tarrasque

Okay thanks.

The Tarrasque lacks regeneration! How could they? Dropping it to 0 only makes it sleep for a hundred years though. You can't kill it without luring it off plane first.

As long as you get the XP for making it sleepy.

Tarrasque: Is nasty. Level 30 Solo Brute. It solves the problem of being unable to fly by having an aura that makes fliers fall to within it's reach if they come within 200 feet of the thing.

I'd probably have prefered if they just gave it a breath weapon. However, I wonder if they made the Tarrasque the abomination of Earth deities? Thus giving it a reason why it would have such a gravitic aura.

Its standard attack is +34 vs AC, 1d12+16 and ongoing 15 (save ends).

Fractionally lower than I suspected, however 2d8+16 would have put it over the limit and 2d6 isn't much different to 1d12 I suppose (and they may like to keep the die rolling to a minimum).

It ignores all resistances. On a 5 or 6 it can recharge a fury attack, which does a standard attack AND either does +34 vs AC 3d12+16 and -5 to AC until the end of the tarrasque's next turn, or +32 vs Fortitude 3d12+16 and the target is pushed 4 and knocked prone. It can also trample, +33 vs Reflex, 1d12+16 and knocks prone.

Not bad.

When bloodied, it attacks with a standard attack against everyone within reach at once.

Strength score is 42 (+31)

Interesting. Reverse engineering the stat, tells us that you can have a maximum of +14 to one stat at 30th.

Which gives the Tarasque a starting strength of 28. If we assume +1 for each size category and +5 for Solo (to two stats lets say) it starts at base 20. Though I could potentially make the Wingless Godflayer Strength 47 then.

Although with +18 I'd need to drop the base damage down to 2d8.

Balor: Sword is +32 vs AC 2d10+10 lightning, 3d10+30 lightning on crit
Whip is +30 vs Reflex 3d8+5 fire and ongoing 5 fire (save ends), and target is pulled to a space next to the balor.

It's standard attack uses both at once. If it misses, once per encounter it can reroll with a +5.

Strength score is 30 (+23)

Thanks again.

 

[historian]

The 1/2 hp damage can be resisted, or you can be immune to it altogether. There's a paragon level artifact, for instance, that can make you resist any three energy types you want, and change them every round. I haven't gone through all the equipment yet, but it seems to me that getting resistance shouldn't be out of the equation, and even immunity is likely possible.

That's interesting.

I think where I'm going is not a suggestion that 4e is internally imbalanced, but that, as to 3.5, that powers appear more powerful at first blush.

Thanks again.

 

[historian]

Something I was mucking about with last week...



I am sure there are a few mistakes, but I thought it was okay for a first attempt. Any comments?

I'll have the parasites typed up later today. If you guys with the books can spot any mistakes or suggest some skills I'll post it up on the website tonight.

Sweet; is that a solo monster U_K?

I would be interested in a playtest report v. Orcus.

 

[Fieari]

What is the damage when it explodes?

Death Burst: Close burst 10; +29 vs Reflex 7d10 fire damage, miss for half. The balor's weapons are completely destroyed.

I also forgot to mention that it has a flaming body ability. Aura 2 (3 when bloodied), anyone starting their turn in the aura takes 10 fire damage (20 when bloodied), making the whip pull ability nicer.



I'm taking a look at magic armors here for how common resistances are. Black Iron armor, at level 4, resists 5 fire/5 necrotic. At level 14, it resists 10 of both, and at 24 resists 15 of both.

Then there's Bloodcut Armor, which at level 4, if you're bloodied and use a healing surge, lets you resist 10 to ALL until the end of your next turn, increasing to 15 and 20 at paragon and epic levels.

Deathcut resists 5 necrotic/5 poison at level 5 (and gives you some attack abilities)

Flamedrinker, at level 14, resists 10 fire, and 15 at level 24, but once per day as an interrupt gives you and all allies resist 20 (and resist 30 at level 24).

There's a bunch more armors like these, just for different elements. They seem standard.

Another thing to make Orcus more beatable: Soulforged Armor, available at level 19, gives you one extra turn to be awake at 0 hp, just like the staggered rule of 3.x. I wouldn't think it very useful, except for abilities like this that send you EXACTLY to 0 hp.

And that artifact armor I mentioned? Actually heroic tier, not paragon.