4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Pssthpok]

Hiya mate!



I'll post it up on my website over the next few days, hows that.

I changed my mind about adding a fourth column to the Limited Damage Expression Table after further research.

Kudos, mate! Looking forward to it. I tried sussing it the other night, but couldn't come up with the numbers your post suggested.

A few more questions, if you'd indulge me:

Off hand, have you nailed down which 16 portfolios you'll include?
Will these be "classes", then? Like a 5- or 10-level Fire Controller (i.e. "Fire Lord") class, etc?

How much symmetry are you going to try to bend into shape for the 4E rules? cf. Magic vs. Science (i.e. no Dr. Doom), Love vs. Wisdom (I know what Elvis said, but hey... cut us some slack ), Skill = Dexterity, and other things that were met with contention from the public. I for one wouldn't mind seeing some of that go with the dodos, freeing up people for more elaborate portfolio combinations while simultaneously shoveling a little of the responsibility onto the DM and the players (and thus off of you) with regard to what is "reasonable" in terms of combos and such. Seems to be a motif in 4E; could be helpful.

Have you taken a look at the 4E XP chart for PC progression yet? I tried to bust that table but came up with some off results when pairing it with expected XP gains per encounter of nth level (11th level requires +500 XP, for instance, while 21st requires +4000 XP). Curious what your take was on it; I would have liked to have dropped a 31-60 XP table on your plate for the assist, but haven't been able to smooth out the breakdown.

 

[shinmizu]

Hello there Shinmizu!

Howdy, UK! (Hmm. I don't normally get the opportunity speak to an entire nation.)

Not exactly sure what you are asking here.

It just seemed to me like the progression from say 1 to 21 , or 11 to 30, while still fairly significant in the mortal view, seemed like a relatively slow progression compared to the differences between a mortal being and a true god. I suppose I could have better worded my curiosities as "will you maintain the same relative increase in power from level to level or will a jump in level within the godly levels be much more significant than the mortal progression?"

Anyway, hope that answers your question?

I think so.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Belzamus mate!

Perhaps call them Deicides instead of Godslayers? Same effect but a little more esoteric/evocative I think.

I sort of want something that fits in with the:

Abomination < ? < Entity < Anomaly

type names.

Secondary names would be

Thing (Vile Spawn)...assuming Heroic Tier version?
Horror (Dread Spawn)...Paragon Tier
Abomination (War Spawn)
Scion (God Spawn)
Entity (Star Spawn)
Anomaly (Warp Spawn)

Not sure yet.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Anabster dude!

Probably wise. They were always more interesting conceptually than in implementation.

Well I think 4E will be much easier to balance than 3/3.5.

But I just think theres not going to be enough material to go around by the point at which you reach Time Lord that it sort of makes it a waste of time.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Kudos, mate! Looking forward to it. I tried sussing it the other night, but couldn't come up with the numbers your post suggested.

No problemo.

A few more questions, if you'd indulge me:

Your not the only who likes the new icons.

Off hand, have you nailed down which 16 portfolios you'll include?

Pencilled down rather than nailed down.

Archery
Death
Fear
Fey
Fire
Healing
Magic
Mountain
Protection
Rulership
Sea
Sky
Strength
Swords
Trickery
War

Will these be "classes", then? Like a 5- or 10-level Fire Controller (i.e. "Fire Lord") class, etc?

No. They'll be 20 Level classes broken into four units of 5, with (probably) one unit for each of the Roles (Controller, Defender, Leader, Skirmisher).

Every time you gain a new portfolio power, your previous portfolio power gets a boost.

eg. Lets say my 40th-level character took the Fire portfolio at 31st (to 35th) then chose the Strength portfolio from 36th-40th. As soon as he gains his new encounter, utility and daily powers for the Strength portfolio, the Fire portfolio ones are boosted.

How much symmetry are you going to try to bend into shape for the 4E rules? cf. Magic vs. Science (i.e. no Dr. Doom), Love vs. Wisdom (I know what Elvis said, but hey... cut us some slack ), Skill = Dexterity, and other things that were met with contention from the public. I for one wouldn't mind seeing some of that go with the dodos, freeing up people for more elaborate portfolio combinations while simultaneously shoveling a little of the responsibility onto the DM and the players (and thus off of you) with regard to what is "reasonable" in terms of combos and such. Seems to be a motif in 4E; could be helpful.

Those will probably disappear.

Have you taken a look at the 4E XP chart for PC progression yet? I tried to bust that table but came up with some off results when pairing it with expected XP gains per encounter of nth level (11th level requires +500 XP, for instance, while 21st requires +4000 XP). Curious what your take was on it; I would have liked to have dropped a 31-60 XP table on your plate for the assist, but haven't been able to smooth out the breakdown.

I looked at it a while back, but haven't really studied it closely as yet. Don't envision it will give me any problems though.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again Shinmizu!

Howdy, UK! (Hmm. I don't normally get the opportunity speak to an entire nation.)

I'll assume a metaphorical 24-gun salute in my honour.

It just seemed to me like the progression from say 1 to 21 , or 11 to 30, while still fairly significant in the mortal view, seemed like a relatively slow progression compared to the differences between a mortal being and a true god. I suppose I could have better worded my curiosities as "will you maintain the same relative increase in power from level to level or will a jump in level within the godly levels be much more significant than the mortal progression?"

Ah, now I see.

Yes, one level will still be one level. Although much like an epic power or feat is better than a heroic or paragon equivalent, obviously the powers and feats will be slightly better - although I still want to maintain the same sense of balance.

I think so.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Upper_Krust!

The GSL is up! I read through it, and am wondering what your take on it is. Is it a good thing for Eternity Publishing, or one more hoop to jump through?

One interesting point was a section (I don't remember which) that specifies (in legalese) that one cannot contradict the core rules. Which means, possibly, that if the core rules say you hit level 30 and retire, (which I don't know if they do) you are pretty S.O.L.

Best question to ask is now: What can we NOT do?
(Ironically not the question I thought we would be asking, [I thought we would be asking "what can we do?"] but an important one still)

 

[Center-of-All]

Hiya, Krusty!

I wouldn't be opposed to seeing some more immortals in the II entry, I don't think it would be a good idea to push out better known gods for them. This would be possible with more obscure religions, but the Greek one being so well known limits you somewhat, I think. Where would you put Pandora? The only myth I recall her from is the traditional Box myth, and I can't recall her being particularly inluential beyond that one event. Quasideity, perhaps?

While I can sympathize with your desire for one character per class, I'm not sure your most recent one would work as well. It'd be borderline criminal not to include Theseus, and while Bellopheron is less important, I've at least heard of him (who the heck is Agave? Nevermind, I'll look it up).

It's a shame about the portfolio thing, but understandable. I'd like to see more Immortals Index entries before adventures, but I get why you want a little variety. I do think you need some sort of Nature porfolio (is this the Fey portfolio?), and probably a Love portfolio. Conversely, Swords seems a little superfluous with War there. Anyway, just some thoughts, have to go read the GSL, ciao!

 

[shinmizu]

One interesting point was a section (I don't remember which) that specifies (in legalese) that one cannot contradict the core rules. Which means, possibly, that if the core rules say you hit level 30 and retire, (which I don't know if they do) you are pretty S.O.L.

So far on a cursory glance, I'm just seeing a mention in the DMG that "you can continue your campaign indefinitely with level 30 characters" and "but your campaign must end eventually." It seems to imply that 30's a hard cap and you need to retire, but I'm not sure if that counts as a hard core rule or just a suggestion.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Upper_Krust!

Howdy Ltheb mate!

The GSL is up! I read through it, and am wondering what your take on it is. Is it a good thing for Eternity Publishing, or one more hoop to jump through?

Seems relatively straightforward.

At this juncture the only concern is that specific Demon and Devils are not allowed. Then again, I wasn't going to be using any of theirs in my adventures anyway - I suppose I could always have a "Minion of the Pit" or something like that if I wanted a Pit Fiend Minion.

One minor concern is the inability to reference existing specific Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies. But you don't need to mention them for NPCs, so no big deal.

One interesting point was a section (I don't remember which) that specifies (in legalese) that one cannot contradict the core rules. Which means, possibly, that if the core rules say you hit level 30 and retire, (which I don't know if they do) you are pretty S.O.L.

LOL. I have read through the GSL twice and theres nothing like that. I think you might be reading too much into it.

I'm not changing anything mechanical, simply adding to it - which is clearly allowed. I'm not changing a Reference - all the references are listed in the new SRD. I'm not using any of their product identity*

*Though I wonder could you get written permission from WotC on specific cases to use parts of their product identity.

e.g. Say I wanted to use the Yuan-Ti in an adventure, or specifically refer to Tiamat.

Basically I don't see any problems though.

Best question to ask is now: What can we NOT do?
(Ironically not the question I thought we would be asking, [I thought we would be asking "what can we do?"] but an important one still)

We cannot use WotC Product Identity (naturally)
We cannot sell 3/3.5 versions of 4E Product Lines (as expected)
We cannot include existing MM stat blocks (though you can refer to them) but you could use modified versions of those stat blocks.