J.Quondam
CR 1/8
Nah, that happened back at "death spiral".Another already bad term for cutting off discussion loses all meaning.
RIP
Nah, that happened back at "death spiral".Another already bad term for cutting off discussion loses all meaning.
RIP
the issue is that he was speaking for the company. Sales has nothing to do with this and you have a whole thread dedicated to weather or not sales=quilitySomeone that didn't even work on the product long enough to make it to the playtest (much less actual concrete rules or likely even drafts of the PHB or DMG) had some ideas that didn't pan out. Meanwhile we have the best selling version of D&D ever released. I simply don't see what the issue is.![]()
Death spirals are actually a thing in games. badwrongfun is 'stop talking about your preferences'.Nah, that happened back at "death spiral".
Yeap.Death spirals are actually a thing in games.
Really? I always thought it was stop saying your preference is the only way to play?badwrongfun is 'stop talking about your preferences'.
Used to be.Really? I always thought it was stop saying your preference is the only way to play?
Indeed. And "badwrongfun" bombs are what they are, whether the word itself is used, or whether they're wrapped in snark.Death spirals are actually a thing in games. badwrongfun is 'stop talking about your preferences'.
I think you're right, but I also think you can change the tone without completely decoupling for D&D with V/WP system. D&D is always going to feature a majority of combat, the rules are mostly about resolving combat, so a wound system needs to be minorly punishing or at least recoverable. We are not talking WHF-level limb removal and blinding. Vitality Points are basically hit points in the abstract, but wounds are a new level to show the wear of an entire adventure or chapter. Careful play can avoid wounds altogether, but you can push eyond heroically and bear the weight of a woundDifferent games have different goals. Some want combat to be the last resort option that should be avoided at all costs so death spirals make sense. Combat being the last resort is not one of D&D's goals and I don't think it would be the same game if it was.
as much as I am hopeing for a 100% overhaul, just changing HP to VP will end a lot of "but I cut you I did damage" arguments.Vitality Points are basically hit points in the abstract, but wounds are a new level to show the wear of an entire adventure or chapter. Careful play can avoid wounds altogether, but you can push eyond heroically and bear the weight of a wound
Did I turn over two pages at once or something?Indeed. And "badwrongfun" bombs are what they are, whether the word itself is used, or whether they're wrapped in snark.
I took it too personal, and I apologize.Did I turn over two pages at once or something?
Because what I see is:
1) Someone else entirely mocked people for pointing out the issue of possible death spirals and accused them of not saying what they meant.
2) I said people are actually just saying they don't want death spirals.
3) You made a joke.
4) I made a joke back
5) You accused me of badwrongfunning.
What in the seven interlocking hells happened between 4 and 5?
S'cool.I took it too personal, and I apologize.
I think you're right, but I also think you can change the tone without completely decoupling for D&D with V/WP system. D&D is always going to feature a majority of combat, the rules are mostly about resolving combat, so a wound system needs to be minorly punishing or at least recoverable. We are not talking WHF-level limb removal and blinding. Vitality Points are basically hit points in the abstract, but wounds are a new level to show the wear of an entire adventure or chapter. Careful play can avoid wounds altogether, but you can push eyond heroically and bear the weight of a wound
The exhaustion mechanic is a 5e mechanic that causes a death spiral. That's one reason exhaustion is relatively rare. And why the Frenzy barbarian is dinged for having such a brutal mechanic.A "death spiral" isn't actually a thing in the game.
There is no reason mechanically or story-wise that a death spiral should occur. I interpret death spiral to mean "I don't want anything in the game that might limit my character from doing whatever I want." Heaven forbid we lost hit points, heaven forbid we have any kind of lasting effects (nope, spells re-save every round), injuries? Pfft. As good as gold at 1hp as at 156hp.
The wounds/vitality discussion is more about taking something abstract, ie HP, and making them more specific: meat and "luck". If that level of specificity grates on you, then don't use it. Some of us might want that included in the rules (optional or otherwise), because it makes the game more interesting to us.
Death Spiral is a conversation/discussion killer. Its abstract, isn't actually a "thing" in the game, just a buzzword that gets thrown about when someone doesn't agree with something having to do with introducing more challenge to the game.
We've used a vaguely-similar system* for 40 years now and our number-crunching shows the front-liners are roughly just as mortal as everyone else. I fail to see how giving all characters, in effect, a few more hit points screws over anyone.Sure, lets punish front line fighters more and further incentivize ranged characters.
Every system I've seen with this screws the folks out front taking hits to protect their allies. This gets a hard pass from me.
I'm curious about this, if you dont mind explaining a little more.I use the Exhaustion table at 0 HP instead of 3 Death Saves. This is essentially my "Wound Points" table at play. Only difference is that all PCs have "six Wound Points", as I don't change the Exhaustion table based on CON scores or whatnot.
The plethora of mechanics we've explored/played with/etc. have been:I use the Exhaustion table at 0 HP instead of 3 Death Saves. This is essentially my "Wound Points" table at play. Only difference is that all PCs have "six Wound Points", as I don't change the Exhaustion table based on CON scores or whatnot.
And the benefit of course is that a loss of a "wound points" actually reduces the PCs effectiveness, as the Exhaustion table has penalties that take effect at each level.