5E: Alternate Takes on Official Fifth Edition Monsters

[Cleon]

Animated Object, Animated Catapult
Huge construct, unaligned
Armor Class 18 (natural armor)
Hit Points 110 (17d12)
Speed 25 ft.

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
22 (+6)​	10 (+0)​	10 (+0)​	1 (–5)​	3 (–4)​	1 (–5)​

Saving Throws STR +9, CON +9
Skills Perception +2
Damage Immunities poison, psychic
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned
Senses blindsight 60 ft., passive Perception 12
Languages —
Challenge 5 (1,800 XP) Proficiency Bonus +3

Antimagic Susceptibility. The animated catapult is incapacitated while in the area of an antimagic field. If targeted by dispel magic, the catapult must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute.

False Appearance. While the animated catapult remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal object.

Ramming Charge. If the animated catapult moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a gore attack on the same turn, the gore deals an extra 11 (2d10) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 17 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

Targeting. If the animated catapult takes one or more actions to aim at a target then uses its next action to make a mangonel stone attack against the same target, the stone has a range of 150/600 if it aimed for one action, or 200/800 if it aimed for two or more actions.

Actions

Multiattack. The animated catapult makes two slam attacks.

Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 17 (2d10 + 6) piercing damage.

Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 13 (2d6 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

Mangonel Stone. Ranged Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, range 100/400 ft., one target. Hit: 28 (4d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage.


Description

Also called a walking mangonel or living trebuchet, an animated catapult is a massive construct of thick timbers and metal plating that looks like an elephant-sized crab or beetle combined with a siege engine. This creature is primarily designed for hurling stones using a mangonel built into its spine, it also has a metal beak or ram for destroying obstacles in front of it. An animated catapult typically has between six and ten legs, but rare models have four legs or a dozen or more. These legs are always short and extremely sturdy, designed for stability rather than speed, with enormously wide feet to help the creature walk on soft ground without sinking or getting stuck.
 The catapult also has two arms for loading its mangonel with stones from a bin on its back; these limbs fold into its flanks below the bin when not in use. Animated catapults only need one arm to load their mangonels at full speed, although if one loses an arm this halves the rate it can perform some other tasks, such as refilling its bin with stones. A few animated catapults are able to carve boulders into mangonel stones with their beaks and arms, but most cannot manufacture ammunition like this.
 Instead of being a creature created by animate objects or similar magic, an animated catapult may be a normal construct that does not require the Antimagic Susceptibility trait.
 Weapons of War. Living trebuchets and walking mangonels are purely military creations. Constructing one is an expensive process that is likely to attract suspicion or hostility from authorities and neighbours. While they can fight well with their hands, feet and beak, frugal commanders often avoid sending these costly constructs into melee. Animated catapults are most effective at distance, attacking from outside the range of their foes' missiles and spells where they can't be harmed by counterfire. Some animated catapults never get within spearthrow of an enemy and only ever use their beaks for mundane labour (clearing ground, digging trenches, carving mangonel stones, et cetera).
 Seeing Machine. Unlike a standard animated object, an animated catapult can see using enchanted glass discs set deep in metal sockets. The construct usually has more than two of these "eyes", strategically placed around its body to offer a wide field of view, much like the eye placement of some spiders. Its most important optics are binocular- or telescope-like devices atop its front face that spot targets for the mangonel. A walking catapult's eyes are hard to spot; the glass discs are tiny compared to its huge and complex body, most are no bigger than a human's eyes.

(Original monster designed by Cleon on the Creature Catalog General Monsters forum.)

 

[Cleon]

Animated Object, Whirling Razor
Tiny construct, unaligned
Armor Class 18 (natural armor)
Hit Points 20 (8d4)
Speed 0 ft., fly 50 ft. (hover)

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
4 (–3)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	1 (–5)​	3 (–4)​	1 (–5)​

Damage Immunities poison, psychic
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned
Senses blindsight 60 ft. (blind beyond this radius), passive Perception 6
Languages —
Challenge 1 (200 XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Antimagic Susceptibility. The whirling razor is incapacitated while in the area of an antimagic field. If targeted by dispel magic, the razor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute.

False Appearance. While the whirling razor remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal object.

Actions

Multiattack. The whirling razor makes two buzzblade attacks.

Buzzblade. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d4 + 4) slashing damage.


Description

At rest, a whirling razor appears to be an exotic throwing weapon made of high quality steel a foot or two across, finely honed to an extraordinarily sharpness. When animated it darts about in the air, often spinning so quickly it becomes a metallic blur; the flying razor often stops to briefly hover perfectly still, as if it were nailed to the air. There are multiple designs of whirling razor; most look like boomerangs or propellers, others resemble pressed flowers, arrowhawks, snowflakes, and many other shapes. Designed as self-propelled weapons, there's little need for whirling razors to be safely thrown or handled by a creature. Most models have no hilt or blunt side to hold them by and their every edge is razor keen.
 Instead of being a creature created by animate objects or similar magic, a whirling razor may be a normal construct that does not require the Antimagic Susceptibility trait.
 Whistling Wings. Whirling razors often have whistle-like devices attached to or built into their wingtips. The sound they produce depends on their construction, the worst sounding emit horrible ear-splitting wails, the sweetest sing a melodious pure tone. These wing-whistles usually only sound when the whirling razor spins (centripetal force opens up their air channels), but some razors whistle whenever they fly, while others can sound them at will. The most elaborate have multiple stops like a flute or recorder and can play musical tunes.
 Lethal Toys. Whirling razors were invented by the Sijhembi clan, a famous family of magicians who specialize in the manufacture of animated objects. Ironically, these constructs began as harmless playthings called winged fans. Simple automatons made of light wood, paper, and sometimes feathers, a winged fan is a (relatively) cheap animated object originally designed as a children's toy. They can also carry messages or very light objects and act as a flying parasol that can fan cooling air.
 Some winged fan owners took to using them in a form of kite fighting, ordering their fans to knock each other out of the sky. Accidents invariably happened, resulting in bruises or paper cuts from errant winged fans. These injuries only got worse when fan-fighters started modifying their constructs with razor blades, ground glass, or weighted wing tips. Rajina Sijhembi, an enthusiastic fan fighter in her own right, saw these accidents and suggested to her family that they modify their winged fan designs into weapons, leading to the development of the whirling razor.

(Original monster designed by Cleon on the Creature Catalog General Monsters forum.)

 

[ilgatto]

Animated Object, Whirling Razor
Tiny construct, unaligned
Armor Class 18 (natural armor)
Hit Points 20 (8d4)
Speed 0 ft., fly 30 ft. (hover)

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
4 (–3)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	1 (–5)​	3 (–4)​	1 (–5)​

Damage Immunities poison, psychic
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned
Senses blindsight 60 ft. (blind beyond this radius), passive Perception 6
Languages —
Challenge # (### XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Antimagic Susceptibility. The whirling razor is incapacitated while in the area of an antimagic field. If targeted by dispel magic, the razor must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute.

False Appearance. While the whirling razor remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal object.

Actions

Multiattack. The ??? makes ??? attacks: ??? with its ??? and ??? with its ???.

Attack. Melee Weapon Attack: +# to hit, reach # ft., one target. Hit: # (#d# + #) ??? damage.

Attack. Ranged Weapon Attack: +# to hit, range ##/## ft., one target. Hit: # (#d# + #) ??? damage.

Action (#/day). ???.
 ???.

Action (Recharge 5-6 | Recharges After a Short/Long Rest). ???.
 ???.


Description

???.
 ???.
 Subsection. ???.
 ???.

 Subsection. ???.
 ???.

(Originally monster designed by Cleon on the Creature Catalog General Monsters forum.)

I think the below may also have some bearing on much of the above.
I've come to understand that size determines the "base Hit DIe" of a creature or thing in 5E, so that means d4 for a Tiny Animated Object, Whirling Razor (as above).
Now suppose I animate a walnut. I assume that would also be d4 because it is Tiny, just like a small sausage or an exquisite glass figurine? And just like a will-o'-wisp?
So why do all of of these objects have a size-based Hit Die while the materials they are made of vary wildly?

 

[Cleon]

Now suppose I animate a walnut. I assume that would also be d4 because it is Tiny, just like a small sausage or an exquisite glass figurine? And just like a will-o'-wisp?

Yes, except for the sausage. If it is Small it uses a d6 Hit Dice.

So why do all of of these objects have a size-based Hit Die while the materials they are made of vary wildly?

There isn't a reason beyond "that's how the Rules work."

It does have some advantages over older editions were a creature's Hit Dice were fixed in size, usually to d8 in AD&D, so a bigger monster HAD to have more HD. The way that attack bonuses and saving throws were tied to HD in old editions meant that a monster was usually more accurate and better at dodging things just because it was bigger so had more HD, which didn't always make a great deal of sense. Why would a Brachiosaurus have better Reflex saves than a Iguanodon just because it had oodles of HD?

 

[ilgatto]

Yes, except for the sausage. If it is Small it uses a d6 Hit Dice.

LOL

There isn't a reason beyond "that's how the Rules work."

Guessed as much.

It does have some advantages over older editions were a creature's Hit Dice were fixed in size, usually to d8 in AD&D, so a bigger monster HAD to have more HD. The way that attack bonuses and saving throws were tied to HD in old editions meant that a monster was usually more accurate and better at dodging things just because it was bigger so had more HD, which didn't always make a great deal of sense. Why would a Brachiosaurus have better Reflex saves than a Iguanodon just because it had oodles of HD?

That is an interesting point. I suppose no rule set is perfect (and I've even noticed people suggesting that 2E is the worst of them).
By the by: IIRC the first publication that used different Hit Dice for different creatures may well have been OD&D Men and Monsters, where some demons had d10s and even d20s for "Hit Dice". But I think this was because the whole system didn't really allow for creatures with lots of HD beyond a certain point (was it 12th "level"?) so that may well have been the only way to get them to have more hit points.

Anyway. The Hit-Die thing has turned out not to apply to the OP so back to business I say.

 

[Cleon]

By the by: IIRC the first publication that used different Hit Dice for different creatures may well have been OD&D Men and Monsters, where some demons had d10s and even d20s for "Hit Dice". But I think this was because the whole system didn't really allow for creatures with lots of HD beyond a certain point (was it 12th "level"?) so that may well have been the only way to get them to have more hit points.

Spent a moment wondering if you meant some third-party publication, since TSR didn't publish a book called Men and Monsters for OD&D. The first two booklets in the 1974 Original Box Set were called Men & Magic and Monsters & Treasures, which I suspect is the source of my confusion.

A bit of investigation revealed you probably meant Eldritch Wizardry, which contains the rule:

Demons (detailed in the next part of this supplement) gain saving throws according to their number of hit dice except those demons with 10-sided, 12-sided, or 20-sided dice for determining the number of hit points they have. Basically, each hit die that a demon possesses equals one level: however, with regard to demons with 10- or 12- sided hit dice the number of levels is 50% greater than the number of dice (round up), while demons with 20-sided hit dice are considered as having a level equal to twice their hit dice.​

There was no cap on the number of HD a monster can have, but their to hit table stops advancing at a certain number of HD (i.e. 16+ HD in AD&D) so all they get is more hit points, so many titanically powerful monsters were just given an arbitrary number of hp plus an "attacks as 16+ HD monster" statement.

The first monster with non-standard Hit Dice that I'm aware of was the humble Kobold in Monsters & Treasures which instead of a single Hit Die like a Goblin, had half a HD, or rather a single HD whose results were interpreted in a peculiar manner:

KOBOLDS: Treat these monsters as if they were Goblins except that they will take from 1 - 3 hits (roll a six-sided die with a 1 or 3 equalling 1 hit, a 3 or 4 equalling 2 hits, etc.).​

Original book monsters used D6s for Hit Dice. Indeed the rules only employed D20s and D6s. The first supplement, Greyhawk (1975), "highly recommended" switching to different sizes of Hit Dice for classes and gave all monsters the 8-sided die system, with the addition "Thus, a Kobold would get 1-4 points" but had no explanation as to how those 1 to 4 hit points were derived.

The easiest interpretation was that was meant to be a D4 like Kobolds use in AD&D, but now I'm imagining a non-standard dice rolling method like in Monsters & Treasures.

Perhaps "roll a ten-sided die with a 1-4 equalling 1 hit, a 5-7 equals 2 hits, an 8-9 is 3 hits, and a 10 is 4 hits" (average 2.3), or "roll an eight-sided die with a 1-2 equalling 1 hit, a 3-5 equals 2 hits, a 6-7 is 3 hits, and an 8 is 4 hits" (average 2.25)?

 

[Cleon]

Animated Object, Winged Fan
Tiny construct, unaligned
Armor Class 14
Hit Points 2 (1d4)
Speed 0 ft., fly 30 ft. (hover)

STR​	DEX​	CON​	INT​	WIS​	CHA​
2 (–4)​	18 (+4)​	10 (+0)​	1 (–5)​	3 (–4)​	1 (–5)​

Damage Immunities poison, psychic
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened, frightened, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned
Senses blindsight 60 ft. (blind beyond this radius), passive Perception 6
Languages —
Challenge 0 (10 XP) Proficiency Bonus +2

Antimagic Susceptibility. The winged fan is incapacitated while in the area of an antimagic field. If targeted by dispel magic, the fan must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute.

False Appearance. While the winged fan remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal object.

Actions

Wing. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1 point of bludgeoning damage (may do slashing damage if augmented with razor blades or ground glass).


Description

Most winged fans resemble a paper star, a wheel of feathers, or a four- to six-bladed propeller made from extremely thin, light wood.
 See the whirling razor for background information.
 Instead of being a creature created by animate objects or similar magic, a winged fan may be a normal construct that does not require the Antimagic Susceptibility trait.

(Original monster designed by Cleon on the Creature Catalog General Monsters forum.)

 

[Cleon]

Came up with yet another idea for an animated object while writing out the Whirling Razor.

Now which one do I fancy doing next…?

 

[ilgatto]

Spent a moment wondering if you meant some third-party publication, since TSR didn't publish a book called Men and Monsters for OD&D. The first two booklets in the 1974 Original Box Set were called Men & Magic and Monsters & Treasures, which I suspect is the source of my confusion.

Ah! You noticed my deliberate mistake! Erm... oops. Mille excuses. Very sloppy indeed.

A bit of investigation revealed you probably meant Eldritch Wizardry, which contains the rule:

Demons (detailed in the next part of this supplement) gain saving throws according to their number of hit dice except those demons with 10-sided, 12-sided, or 20-sided dice for determining the number of hit points they have. Basically, each hit die that a demon possesses equals one level: however, with regard to demons with 10- or 12- sided hit dice the number of levels is 50% greater than the number of dice (round up), while demons with 20-sided hit dice are considered as having a level equal to twice their hit dice.​

You have GOT to be joking!

How in all that is Abyssal can I have missed this paragraph? Dear, oh, dear, that's a lot of time wasted on making tables and tables (and revisions of them and restarting all over again and then again) in an attempt to determine the Hit Dice (and thus saving throws) of the various MM1 monsters with only their hit points listed after "HIT DICE". Yes, I know there've been several attempts to determine the HD for such monsters but I've always found them to be slightly off the mark for some reason (especially because of level/HD limits per edition), whence the multitude of attempts to find out what's what.

Oh well.

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

 

[ilgatto]

There was no cap on the number of HD a monster can have, but their to hit table stops advancing at a certain number of HD (i.e. 16+ HD in AD&D) so all they get is more hit points, so many titanically powerful monsters were just given an arbitrary number of hp plus an "attacks as 16+ HD monster" statement.

To stay off-topic, I'm not quite so sure about there being no HD/level cap in OD&D. But now I'm starting to doubt if this could be because I now turn out to have never fully grasped the demon Hit Dice vs "Levels"/saving throws thing. I'll do some allow-all-this-to-sink-inning and then perhaps some digging if still warranted.