5e combat system too simple / boring?

[EzekielRaiden]

As a DM I'd let you write a cantrip that better suits what you want the power to be like as long as it fit the parameters of the equivalent spell. I'm hoping they come out with more cantrip attack options for classes like bard and cleric. Their options are so limited right now it's frustrating. The nice thing about 5E is it allows you to customize abilities for an individual without breaking the game as long you stay in the parameters of similar abilities. You can pretty much let a player write flavor text or slightly modify abilities to suit their vision of what they want the character to do.

Unfortunately, our DM is big on playing RAW and without any frilly/extra rules, in part because he's somewhat new to 5e. That's the main reason why we started at level 1, for example. (Some of our players being new to TTRPGs in general also factored into that choice.) Also, part of the reason for our combats being so meat-grinder-y is that his other 5e group regularly punches well above its weight, while ours struggles to punch at weight. Game's currently on hiatus for the holidays, but he has repeatedly expressed his dismay at our group being unexpectedly easy to overwhelm. Thus far, his efforts to adjust have not quite felt effective, but it might be a problem of perspective for me.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Boredom can set in if there is too much repetition, and not enough risk to make things exciting. This can happen in any system, not just 5E.

After all, having 12 different mechanical options at your fingertips can still be pretty boring if all of them lead to the ho-hum damage/hinder enemy, reduce HP total, rinse and repeat until the inevitable victory. Piling on more mechanical options doesn't address the underlying issues producing the boredom.

D&D in its many iterations has always featured abstract combat. Static defenses, bags of hit point, etc. The design goal in doing so was in speed and ease of resolution. If we take a resolution system that was designed to be quick and dirty and fill entire game sessions with it, then we shouldn't be shocked that the repetition of a super simple process would eventually get boring.

The answer then is not to rely on the mechanics to make the game interesting. The mechanics are the simplest of building blocks used to create the fun & interesting aspects of the game, which must come from the players.

So mechanical aspects aside, what makes a game exciting to play? For me, uncertainty and risk create excitement no matter what the nuts and bolts of the rules are. Imagine playing a game of Texas Hold'em. In this game, there is no betting (eliminating risk), and the two cards dealt to each player are dealt face up (eliminating uncertainty). How interesting would the game be? The basic rules remain the same, and the winner is still the player with the best hand. I would be bored from the start. It is the uncertainty and the risk that make the game exciting.

I look at D&D the same way. For me if the game is overly concerned with story continuity at the expense of real risk and uncertainty then its hard to muster up any real excitement. No matter intricate the mechanics are the game lacks the crucial elements that make play exciting.

Step one to eliminating boredom is a group committed to wanting exciting game play. Once you have that, any rules you are using can be tweaked and adjusted to provide that.

 

[Patrick McGill]

I've found that it is the environment that helps to switch things up when I run. Making sure that you're not fighting in convenient 50 x 50 square battlefields. Use elevations as well as put things in the battlefield a player (or an NPC) might use to their advantage. Lots of cover, maybe a large fiery brazier a player can tip over to spew hot coals over enemies.

I've found that grids are helpful if you aren't using those. Also make sure that you as the DM are not stopping your story to do combat. Make combat the story. Fighting should be a very dramatic moment in the game. It's a game of life and death at that point! Avoid speaking in simple game terms (the orc hits, the goblin misses, rolls a one.) Try to use natural story language to describe events. (You parry the orc's blow, the goblin's spear misses wide and he nearly trips, allowing you an opportunity to attack.)

Edit: Just to add, one thing I did was print out a list of common actions that players might not think about doing in combat. Things like grappling, pushing, etc that are standard actions. I don't have the books on me or I'd give you a page number, but they're listed in the PHB. If you find your players simply doing basic attacks over and over again, printing out a list of possible actions might inspire them to try them.

 

[Huntsman57]

Risk of death in D&D 5e comes from attrition. The more challenges you face do in an adventuring day, the more the difficulty increases as resources dwindle.



This is less a failure of the rules and more a failure to adequately describe the effects of damage as it is discussed in the Basic Rules. As well, a long rest only restores half a character's hit dice which is not quite as right as rain in my view.



I see this as either a challenge design issue (which is a DM issue) or a failure to adhere to the guidelines with regard to the adventuring day.

While certainly there is a sense of growing tension as your resources deplete and you're confronted with more and more challenges, a day like this for a party of adventurers should be an epic day of days. It's ridiculous that every day they are confronted with a never ending series of dangerous encounters.

Even after the party is worn down by numerous fights, we are still in the spot where not a single one of them likely has any realistic chance of having been killed because of the death saving throw system. It's either TPK or everybody lives most of the time.

At the end of the day there was something special, IMO, in 2E and 3.5 when you actually felt like any combat encounter, or hidden danger could spell the end of you if you were careless for just a moment, or even if you just got unlucky. It just made scenarios feel more visceral and realistic.

 

[iserith]

Level 1 characters can die very easy. I'd be more interested in seeing something like a MM vampire against level 4 or 5 characters.

I did that one, too.

 

[Patrick McGill]

When my current group first fought a bugbear, the first time it hit one of them was a moment of beauty. It scared the living hell out of them. It was like a scene from Aliens. "Game over man, game over!"

Now, as a level 5 group, if I plop down a bugbear they still wince a bit. Pavlov's bugbear.

 

[iserith]

While certainly there is a sense of growing tension as your resources deplete and you're confronted with more and more challenges, a day like this for a party of adventurers should be an epic day of days. It's ridiculous that every day they are confronted with a never ending series of dangerous encounters.

It is the expectation set by the game as to what a party of characters can handle. See DMG, page 84. And it's not every day, but every adventuring day, that is, days where the PCs are actually adventuring. Six to eight medium to hard encounters, more if easier, fewer if harder. Do this and the risk of death will loom.

Even after the party is worn down by numerous fights, we are still in the spot where not a single one of them likely has any realistic chance of having been killed because of the death saving throw system. It's either TPK or everybody lives most of the time.

At the end of the day there was something special, IMO, in 2E and 3.5 when you actually felt like any combat encounter, or hidden danger could spell the end of you if you were careless for just a moment, or even if you just got unlucky. It just made scenarios feel more visceral and realistic.

It sounds like you don't attack unconscious PCs.

 

[hejtmane]

It is the expectation set by the game as to what a party of characters can handle. See DMG, page 84. And it's not every day, but every adventuring day, that is, days where the PCs are actually adventuring. Six to eight medium to hard encounters, more if easier, fewer if harder. Do this and the risk of death will loom.



It sounds like you don't attack unconscious PCs.

I do but I am mean in fact the last encounter they where fighting trolls while the druid did a spell it was aoe the cleric took damage as while as the troll oh he failed his check and was knocked prone the troll was all over that having advantage etc hit him hard knocked him to 0 hit points lucky for him that ended the troll attacks and one of the guys paid enough attention ran over and gave him a heal on their action; probably the only reason he did not die

 

[Celtavian]

I did that one, too.

How did the actual fight go against the vampire? Did you run it with a party that failed to get to him in two minutes? And if so, how did that fight go?

 

[iserith]

How did the actual fight go against the vampire? Did you run it with a party that failed to get to him in two minutes? And if so, how did that fight go?

The PCs got slaughtered, basically. They failed to get to him in two minutes. Viktor, Selene, and Vlad took down Lora and Winston pretty quickly and they rose as vampire spawn. This overwhelmed Bulette who went down soon after. Lady Wilhelmina resigned herself to her fate to be by Vampenstein's side for an eternity of undeath and we rolled credits. Fun ending.