D&D 5E 5E economics -The Peasants are revolting!

[kigmatzomat]

Hello all,

So has anyone else looked at the cost hirelings vs lifestyle expenses? In 5e I almost never used hirelings but the GM gave us a decrepit estate as a reward. And now I am of the opinion that 5e should be a world constantly on the edge of peasant revolt.

Why?
Income:
Hireling - Skilled:2 gp per day
Hireling - Untrained:2 sp per day

Vs expense

• Wretched: 0 per day "You live in inhumane conditions. ...sneaking into barns, huddling in old crates, and relying on the good graces of people better off than you. "
• Squalid:1 sp per day "you live in a desperate and often violent environment, in places rife with disease, hunger, and misfortune. You are beneath the notice of most people, and you have few legal protections."
• Poor: 2 sp per day "a sufficient, though probably unpleasant, experience. ... You benefit from some legal protections, but you still have to contend with violence, crime, and disease. People at this lifestyle level tend to be unskilled laborers.."
• Modest: 1 gp per day "You don’t go hungry or thirsty, and your living conditions are clean, if simple. Ordinary people living modest lifestyles include soldiers with families, laborers,"
• Comfortable: 2 gp per day "You associate with merchants, skilled tradespeople, and military officers."

if we assume "modest" lifestyle is the province of skilled laborers, they can rationally deal with illnesses, holidays, possibly even support a family, as their income (2gp/day) is twice their expenses (1gp/day)

But the unskilled masses., they are in rough shape. Forget inconvenient concepts like children as irrelevant in a TTRPG and just look at single adults who are not skilled workers: they live totally hand-to-mouth. Work for 2sp a day, spend 2sp a day to live in "a sufficient, though probably unpleasant, experience" where "you still have to contend with violence, crime, and disease." Missing a single day's work (2sp/day) puts you at distinct risk of dropping down to "desperate" conditions. I hope the gods have mercy during holy days of rest and provide alms and bread.

I don't know if they intended to recreate the conditions that lead to frequent peasant revolts in Europe during the 17th-18th centuries, but they did a bang up job of it.

 

[iserith]

Wealth will trickle down to them as adventurers, replete with plundered gold, spend their money back in town.

This sort of thing works in a fantasy world.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Wealth will trickle down to them as adventurers, replete with plundered gold, spend their money back in town.

This sort of thing works in a fantasy world.

On the houses, strongholds and magic items these poor dudes living hand to mouth have?

No, that money is going to the skilled workers.

The unskilled guys are going to have to work for obvious villains who offer a pittance more that allows them to eat and drink just enough not to die or be swayed into a cult for two hots and a cot. This is why the world is always in peril.

 

[J-H]

As I recall from my History of the French Revolution & Napoleon class 20 years ago, the average lower-class Frenchman in the 1780s spent 80% of his income on bread.

I'm assuming this was urban wage-earners rather than farmers who grew their own food, but yes, that is indeed a subsistence-level urban grind that leaves people with no safety net and barely enough to get by.
But it beats working on the farm, or people wouldn't leave the farm for the disease-ridden poverty-stricken city to try to make money. If you look at some of the major cities in the 1700s-1800s, they would have had negative population growth except for continual migration from the rural areas.

 

[iserith]

On the houses, strongholds and magic items these poor dudes living hand to mouth have?

No, that money is going to the skilled workers.

The unskilled guys are going to have to work for obvious villains who offer a pittance more that allows them to eat and drink just enough not to die or be swayed into a cult for two hots and a cot. This is why the world is always in peril.

Nothing wrong with having a couple of side gigs like Linkboy or Cultist to make ends meet. Respect the hustle. Invest in your dreams. Grind now. Shine later.

 

[bedir than]

Peasant revolts are plot fodder.

Your group owns an estate and pays them poorly. The people revolt. What happens next?

 

[LordEntrails]

Damn, are we figuring out the rules for Bankers & Bookekeepers again?

 

[Fanaelialae]

It's not the peasants fault they're revolting. They just need a hot bath and maybe some table manners.

In all seriousness, that's a fine way to go if that's how you want your world to function. IMO, the PHB rules are meant to be player facing, meaning they're intended to be the costs that your average itinerant adventurer will encounter.

I would say that, under reasonable circumstances, an NPC's costs could be lower. An NPC who's lived in the same town all of their lives might have significantly less costs. They could have their own home, rather than living out of inns. They could be childhood friends with the local baker, who gives them a discount on their bread. So on and so forth. That's not to say that an unskilled laborer would be living even a modest lifestyle, but rather that they don't necessarily have to be a single bad day from ruin. Really, it just depends on the kind of fantasy world you want to run.

 

[aco175]

My players might hire some laborers to handle camp chores or hold torches and such. Someone needs to handle the wagon if they get one or groom the horses and such. They tend to get a cut of treasure and are overpaid for their 2sp/day. Some sort of hazard pay for risking their lives somewhat. They likely would not get raise dead cast on them, but would get more like 2-5gp/day.

The main OP topic could also bring in things like taxes on the PCs for bringing out a haul of treasure. The local baron is sitting at the edge of town looking for their 50% and then the King needs 20% since the gold was found on his land. The remaining 30% can be whittled down more by fees to get into local temples and libraries.

 

[Oofta]

I separate economics and how well off common folk are from the pay scale and costs listed in the book, they have little to do with each other. What it takes for an adventurer to have a modest living is different from someone more settled who may also have multiple wage earners, and generations, living under the same roof. Just looking at housing, it may not be that much more expensive to have a family than it would be for an individual. A wife may or may not have a job, but may barter with the neighbor and the kids may do odd jobs. That, and laborers were often rewarded in different ways, with things like free lodging or at least some of their meals.

There was no "typical" level of wealth over the span of the middle ages in Europe, some were relatively wealthy while others lived in constant fear of starvation. Often it just depended on where you were and what was going on with the local economy. I don't see why the fantasy world would be any different.