D&D 5E 5e Eldritch Knight vs PF Magus

[ppaladin123]

5E offers a zillion options to cast spells and fight, for sure, but none of them are actually good F/Ms. Valour Bard is pretty weak at fighting and has a poor AC, and mostly illusion/charm spells, Pact Blade Warlock is also weak at fighting and has a poor AC, but can cast a lot of spells, potentially. Both Ancients and Vengeance Pallies are strong Fighters with more and better magic then EKs, so there's that.

I think with both the valor bard and pact blade warlock are helped by taking a single level of fighter at first level for heavy armor proficiency/con saves/fighting style. 2 attacks isn't as good as 4 but I wouldn't call it weak at fighting when combined with, for example, hold person, which gives you automatic critical hits on the target(s) while in place. The valor bard would probably want to take thunderwave, bane, hold person, shatter, bestow curse, dimension door, misty step, etc. and then pick up stuff like fly and haste with the magical secrets feature.


Right out of the box I think that the Oath of Vengeance Paladin is the best default gish given the expanded spell list, and the ability to channel spell effects through their weapons via the smite spells.

I think though that a fighter 1/warlock 19 or a fighter 1/bard 19 could be quite potent though depending on what types of spells you want to focus on.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think with both the valor bard and pact blade warlock are helped by taking a single level of fighter at first level for heavy armor proficiency/con saves/fighting style. 2 attacks isn't as good as 4 but I wouldn't call it weak at fighting when combined with, for example, hold person, which gives you automatic critical hits on the target(s) while in place.

Hold Person is definitely nice, but you need to spend a round casting it (so 0 DPR that round), they need to fail the initial save for it to benefit you at all, and then they save every round. If they save, that's a big loss of DPR. If it only lasts 1 round, then it's a wash, on average (for you - for others meleeing the same target it will help). If it lasts longer, then it's a pretty cool increase.

I'd have to see save chances to really assess how useful it was. Lower-level Bard is going to be maybe 18 CHA (on a good day), so +4 DC there, +2/3 prof vs., looking at Hoard of the Dragon Queen supplement, +0 through +2 Wis saves for most lower-end humanoid enemies (even the one proficient one I see only has +2), so yeah, let's say DC 15 (18 CHA, +3 Prof) save, a guy with +0 Wis save has a 30% chance to make that, and +2 has 40% - which means it will usually be worth casting it on a tough target assuming more than one person intends to hit him.

The valor bard would probably want to take thunderwave, bane, hold person, shatter, bestow curse, dimension door, misty step, etc. and then pick up stuff like fly and haste with the magical secrets feature.

That would make for an effective combatant in some ways, but not really a Fighter/Mage in any trad sense. I don't think that they're really superior melee/magic combatants to, say, a Tempest Cleric, even though they get Extra Attack and he doesn't (given his superior AC, weapons, and assorted nuke-y abilities).

Right out of the box I think that the Oath of Vengeance Paladin is the best default gish given the expanded spell list, and the ability to channel spell effects through their weapons via the smite spells.

I dunno if a Paladin is remotely a "gish". It's a single-class Divine spellcaster. Presumably Vengeance over Ancients because Hunter's Mark/Hold Person/Haste? Ancients has Ensnaring Strike and Nature's Wrath (a CD ability) which give a lot of Restrained but I see that Restrained is distinctly inferior to Paralyzed.

I think though that a fighter 1/warlock 19 or a fighter 1/bard 19 could be quite potent though depending on what types of spells you want to focus on.

Warlock 2/Bard 18 would blow Fighter 1/Bard 19 out of the water damage-wise, I believe. Hell, it would blow an EK out of the water. Using the Pact Blade as a Warlock is asking to do much lower damage, to have more MAD, and to be at more risk. It's thematically cool, but Eldritch Blast is effectively Fighter Attack rate, at range, 1d10 damage, +CHA (and hits with CHA) if you take Agonizing Blast, and if I understand the PHB Bard and MC rules correctly, you could use EB and make a melee attack at L7 Bard and above. I presume that EB can crit. If it can't, it's still ahead, but less far.

 

[gyor]

I'd say all the Paladin's are good at mixing Magic and Fighting, they just have different focuses.

The Cavalier aka the White Knight has great defencisve and accuracy magic, plus access to smites which they all have. A very defender/Leader feel, a traditional Paladin.

The Avenger aka the Dark Knight, is pure offence and tracking down enemies, the most focused one, strongly striker.

The Green Knight aka the Horned Knight aka the Fey Knight, is the controller of the bunch, with CD Nature's Wrath, and spells like Ensnaring Strike, Ice Storm, Plant Growth, that ether restrain the target or create diffiuclt terrain. And when it has Elder Champion up, she can cast spells like Ice Storm, Destructive Wave/Smite, and Moonbeam as bonus actions and give hed enemies on the disadvantage against saves against Paladin Spells and CDs. Plus she's the best Character for taking out SpellCasters.



Still the Paladin can't cast spells/cantrips nearly every round the way an Eldrich Knight can at 7th level and beyond.

And more importantly the Paladin isn't an arcane spellcaster so doesn't count as a Mage/Fighter type.

Heck if were including divine casters a Tempest Cleric is awsome.

 

[Chriscdoa]

trying to convert a PF magus to 5e. level 3 so can go Fighter/EK or multiclass wizard fighter.

Is there a class or feat that lets you deliver touch spells via weapon like the magus? i can't find one

thanks