D&D 5E 5e EPIC MONSTER UPDATES

[Matrix Sorcica]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely look the his 4e incarnation. Do you know if he has stats in any other edition?

Well, those abilities are not from 4e Cyan, but from other 4e monsters (Eclavrah From MM3 fx). I guess he's in DL10 dragonlance module from 1e, and likely in one of the 3.x dragonlancebooks from Margaret Weiss productions.

Edit: he's also in DLR3: Unsung Heroes for 2e.

Just tell me if you need more details about his stats.

 

[dave2008]

Well, those abilities are not from 4e Cyan, but from other 4e monsters (Eclavrah From MM3 fx). I guess he's in DL10 dragonlance module from 1e, and likely in one of the 3.x dragonlancebooks from Margaret Weiss productions.

Edit: he's also in DLR3: Unsung Heroes for 2e.

Just tell me if you need more details about his stats.

I did find a 3e version of him on-line, though it was rather uninspiring (decent spell list is about it). After reviewing the 4e version and seeing the 3e version I am think of dropping his CR down to 20+/1 and describing him as an "Old" or "Elder" dragon, between Adult and Ancient. He has typically not been portrayed as a fully grown green: elder in 4e & ancient in 3e (Great Wyrm's where the oldest/largest in 3e).

I think it should be pretty straight forward from there.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

I did find a 3e version of him on-line, though it was rather uninspiring (decent spell list is about it). After reviewing the 4e version and seeing the 3e version I am think of dropping his CR down to 20+/1 and describing him as an "Old" or "Elder" dragon, between Adult and Ancient. He has typically not been portrayed as a fully grown green: elder in 4e & ancient in 3e (Great Wyrm's where the oldest/largest in 3e).

I think it should be pretty straight forward from there.

Yeah found those 3e stats as well. In 4e he's an old green +1, so go for huge. Since he's not a strong dragon physically, I think pumping him up with nasty spell like abilities like the ones I mentioned as well as inflicting both poison and psychic damage might just boost his damage up to CR 21.

I think maybe you made Ashardalon too high CR. He was originally a red dragon with the fiendish template (+2 CR) and in 4e no higher level than a regular ancient red. Since his stats doesn't reflect his fiendish part at all (except for the balor), I suggest he only be CR 25.(maybe 'high end' CR 25)

 

[dave2008]

Yeah found those 3e stats as well. In 4e he's an old green +1, so go for huge. Since he's not a strong dragon physically, I think pumping him up with nasty spell like abilities like the ones I mentioned as well as inflicting both poison and psychic damage might just boost his damage up to CR 21.

That is what I am think too. Whether it is 20 or 21, I'll just see where he lands.

I think maybe you made Ashardalon too high CR. He was originally a red dragon with the fiendish template (+2 CR) and in 4e no higher level than a regular ancient red. Since his stats doesn't reflect his fiendish part at all (except for the balor), I suggest he only be CR 25.(maybe 'high end' CR 25)

Possibly. I started with the idea of what would a red dragon's CR be if I bumped it up to max hit points, and then I turned it into Ashlardalon. I'll take a fresh look at him and see what comes out, but I'm think CR 25-26 as well. Thank you for your thoughts!

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Possibly. I started with the idea of what would a red dragon's CR be if I bumped it up to max hit points, and then I turned it into Ashardalon. I'll take a fresh look at him and see what comes out, but I'm think CR 25-26 as well.

I like this approach. But the way 5E focuses on total hp and and thus less on hit dice, I can see that if you 'roll max', CR goes up. To make him a baddie for his CR, end up with CR 25.49

 

[dave2008]

I have updated Ashardalon to match the revised red dragon stats more closely. I took the opportunity to let his inner balor shine through a little more as well.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

Very nice (except for the cases of "the Ashardalon" )

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

BTW, won't there be a huge discrepancy between MM CR 19 monsters and your CR 20 monsters?

 

[dave2008]

Very nice (except for the cases of "the Ashardalon" )

That's what happens when you start from the red dragon .docx. I tried to catch them all, but clearly missed some. FYI, with HP being in the CR 30 range it wasn't possible to get him down to CR 25. IMHO, he fell comfortably into a high CR 26.

I've deleted all of the extra "the" and will reload shortly. Also, I am wrapping up Cyan and hope to past him this afternoon.

 

[dave2008]

BTW, won't there be a huge discrepancy between MM CR 19 monsters and your CR 20 monsters?

Yes, but my table actually goes all the way down to CR 0, though it doesn't start changing until you get past CR10. If I wanted to "do it right" I would update the CR 11-19 monsters too - maybe another thread I only posted the CR20+ version since this thread is specifically about "epic" threats and allies.