D&D 5E 5e EPIC MONSTER UPDATES

[dave2008]

I was going through some of the earlier creations and I noticed the Empyrean entry has a few glaring typos - it's referred to as a solar in the innate spellcasting and as a dragon in the legendary actions section.

That is one of the older ones, for some reason I didn't start using find/replace until later. As I update them (and the empyrean needs an update) I will try to fix those issues. Thank you letting me know.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

CR is on my mind lately. I've been having a conversation with CapnZapp on his Juiblex thread and he got me thinking about CR. The goal of this project was to give high CR monsters more punch because they just are not living up to their CR IMO. So I revised the table and beefed up the monsters in this thread.

Now it always concerned me that my creations differed from the official CR. So I had planned on making two versions of each monster, one based my table and one based on the WotC DMG table. However, that would be a lot of work.

So instead I am thinking of having only one version of the monster, but two CR values. One value based on my table and one based on the official DMG table. For example lets look at the Ancient Red Dragon. My version is CR 24, just like the official version. However, mine is a much tougher foe. If I use the DMG table I get a CR of 29. Thus, my revised stat block would read:

Challenge 24/29 (62,000/135,000 XP)

Would that be helpful or confusing?

I think it's an unnecessary complication. I believe if you're using these creature's in battle your probably in an epic level campaign, in which case people just need to step up their game, and it's the DM's job to make sure they understand their group well enough not to put them in deadly situations.

I think you should specify in the introduction that these creatures are not equal to the normal Monster Manual CR

I think it would defeat the purpose of your work and as szymanski says, unnecessarily complicate things.
You do all the work to make the high CR monsters carry more ummph. It you insted say "well this dragon is in reality a CR 29 monster, only in my game is a CR24 monster", you haven't really increased the power of the high CR monsters, only made new, higher CR versions of them.

As I see it, you want to make sure that the epic monsters feel epic, and and can stand against epic characters, but still mainly (exceptions as we get to greater gods etc.) be within reach of mortal level heroes. If CR increase by 5 or more across the board, this goal goes out the window.

 

[SkidAce]

Agree with the above. ^

 

[dave2008]

[MENTION=3547]Matrix Sorcica[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION]: Thank you for the input, it is very helpful

 

[dave2008]

Based on the feedback I have received I am not planning to changing how I represent the CR of these monsters (no reference to the WotC CR in the stat block). I have, however, revised the WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE "OFFICIAL" MONSTERS?: and the HOW DO I USE THESE MONSTERS? sections of the OP to provide some more clarity about the difference in CR and why I'm not using the official CR.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm on my phone, so I can't quote your thing about "the CR feels right but not the oomph of that CR"

It sounds as if you want the break between epic and non-epic to be a real seismic shift.

Your practical results go that way: a CR 21 monster is significantly more powerful than just a CR 20 monster upgraded one step.

(and that's perfectly fine, btw)

Now then, you don't happen to have all your monsters in one handy PDF?

 

[szymanski808]

Actually, I've been working on something just like that. I know Dave2008 wants to release them once they're all done, but I've been working on my own PDF version.

 

[dave2008]

I'm on my phone, so I can't quote your thing about "the CR feels right but not the oomph of that CR"

It sounds as if you want the break between epic and non-epic to be a real seismic shift.

Your practical results go that way: a CR 21 monster is significantly more powerful than just a CR 20 monster upgraded one step.

(and that's perfectly fine, btw)

Now then, you don't happen to have all your monsters in one handy PDF?

I can make a PDF easily as they are all in PDF format already. I will compile them this weekend and post them. That being said, any suggestions or where/how to access the download feature on this website? I actually was going to do this last weekend when I could find/figure out how to access the download section (I may have been on my phone at the time as well) and then got busy with other tasks.

If you can point me in the correct direction I will get it down this weekend.

 

[CapnZapp]

Based on the feedback I have received I am not planning to changing how I represent the CR of these monsters (no reference to the WotC CR in the stat block).

Sure. It shouldn't be too difficult to add in after the fact, thou.

If it were up to me, I would create an "semi-official" table of monster CR statistics where I keep the way you don't allow values like AC to peter off as you approach level 20 (since that would indicate AC 20 would be some kind of maximum), but otherwise make no changes or additions.

And then use that to put a "SOCR" on your creations (where SOCR means Semi-Official CR ).

I think that would provide valuable assistance when a DM wants to quickly get a handle on your creations as compared to monsters from the MM or from published adventures.

In fact, when I think about it, it's possible a CR 19 or 20 monster would only be SOCR 18 or 19, if its values are already at the low end for a CR 20 critter.

 

[dave2008]

Sure. It shouldn't be too difficult to add in after the fact, thou.

If it were up to me, I would create an "semi-official" table of monster CR statistics where I keep the way you don't allow values like AC to peter off as you approach level 20 (since that would indicate AC 20 would be some kind of maximum), but otherwise make no changes or additions.

And then use that to put a "SOCR" on your creations (where SOCR means Semi-Official CR ).

I think that would provide valuable assistance when a DM wants to quickly get a handle on your creations as compared to monsters from the MM or from published adventures.

In fact, when I think about it, it's possible a CR 19 or 20 monster would only be SOCR 18 or 19, if its values are already at the low end for a CR 20 critter.

Yep, it is pretty easy to add at later date so it is always a possibility. For now, I will hold off until I start wrapping up this project.