5e GMs - Why or Why Not Wandering Treasure?

[5ekyu]

So, this came up recently in another thread in a minor way but it is something i have brought up in roundabout ways several times.

Focus is on 5e GMs and the following question:

Why or Why Not do you include Wandering Treasure in your campaign - but specifically in your "inside" encounters?

What do i mean by "Wandering Treasure"?

Pretty much the same thing that is often meant by "Wandering Monsters" - known things inside the scene/scenery/site of the adventure ("dungeon" if you prefer but could be manor house, tavern, ruins etc) that you do not set into a given specific known spot but which might be anywhere.

Example: These ruins used to be an old temple, so there are XYZ GP of valuable parephenalia and temple goods scattered around in the place plus a bit of lesser stuff that is destroyed."

The idea is this and it stems from a bit of a disconnect between "outdoor and indoors" approaches in 5e.

Obvious in both indoor and outdoor cases there will be "set known things" where an precise location and precise inventory or roster is determined and fized. "There is a gold ring and a key in the drawer in room 12" vs "There is an old fountain busted at the base of the northern face and there are three orcs camped there."

Obvious in outdoor cases there is stuff of value or utility around that is not given specific places etc. Example "foraging". The Gm does not place every rabbit and berry bush, but instead puts a DC on an attempt to go "and find food and water" (foraging) based on scarcity and other factors and then the result of a check determines whether or not something was found and if so how much.

The successful results of the check determines the "was there stuff there or not and did i get it or not" as opposed to the "results determining "I got there and there were no animals or berries." Thats because it is expected that the Gm did not pin down all the possible and specific stuff.

Most commonly in indoor cases, that changes. A result of "i search the room" or "i search the rubble" is treated as "how good a looksee did you get, did you miss anything, did you find what was there if any?" The result does not however say anything about "was there something there" because in frankly a lot of cases it *is* expected for there to be a precise list of stuff that is in specific places and "a pile of rubble" that i did not write down "has stuff in it" has to be empty - even devoid of clues.

So, in practice, beating a search DC means "if there was something there, you found it" and beating a survival DC means "you found something" and thats a significant difference in gameplay and expectations.

Now, additionally, its not at all uncommon even in indoors to have the creatures moving around - wandering from room to room... so they may have some specific "starting points" but many can be encountered anywhere... but not for goods.

So, what I do in my games is this:

1 - I always have some "gimmicks" on hand for each PC - items that can be dropped that tie in with the character in some way - backstory, background, class and race are the basic four and i try to have four gimmicks for each character on hand. Whenever it seems good to toss something in - including on a strong roll - i toss in one for *a* character - often the one with the roll.

2 - I tend, especially in any sort of "ruined" or "travelled" - well basically anything really because if its lived in its being shifted day by day and if its abandoned its crumbling etc - so almost anytime - have a general idea of "stuff thats likely to be here." truthfully, its as often or not just some notes as opposed to some list - and when a room is searched i can reward a good check (or a long stay perhaps) with some of that wandering treasure - even if its more trinket than commodity and even/especially if its value is more clue than coin.

So "i search thru the rubble and get a 23" is treated more like a foraging check outdoors would be in that the RESULT is successful and something turns up as opposed to being more like trying to find "a Coupe DeVille hiding at the bottom of a CrackerJack box."

So, GMs do you use "Wandering Treasure" or whatever you want to name "theres stuff scattered around they can find on searches that i did not detail to the room and container" for your indoor scenes, sometimes, never, always, mostly, rarely?

Do you treat "foraging" (DC for scarcity and Success = get stuff - plus possibly pre-determined set pieces) and search resolutions the same or differently?

If you do use it in 5e (or have in other systems) - Wandering treasure in some form, what are some of your good or bad accounts of it?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I know i have seen modules and adventures at times which went to the detail of saying something like this -a chart of general finds in searches - often utility value.

Thanks for your time and participation.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

This is a great idea. I’ve had “wandering treasure” that’s been used for adventure hooks, but I’ve never thought to tie stuff to the PCs’ backstories. Will definitely try to work this into some of my sessions and preparations.

On the whole, yes, I am will insert unexpected (by me) treasure into the adventure if the PCs search an area and roll decently. I will generally roll on a trinkets table (whether it’s the one in the PHB or in the whimsical Table Fables volumes). If I’m stymied, I might say “You find an object made of silver, about the size of your hand; what is it?”

1 - I always have some "gimmicks" on hand for each PC - items that can be dropped that tie in with the character in some way - backstory, background, class and race are the basic four and i try to have four gimmicks for each character on hand. Whenever it seems good to toss something in - including on a strong roll - i toss in one for that character.

 

[5ekyu]

This is a great idea. I’ve had “wandering treasure” that’s been used for adventure hooks, but I’ve never thought to tie stuff to the PCs’ backstories. Will definitely try to work this into some of my sessions and preparations.

On the whole, yes, I am will insert unexpected (by me) treasure into the adventure if the PCs search an area and roll decently. I will generally roll on a trinkets table (whether it’s the one in the PHB or in the whimsical Table Fables volumes). If I’m stymied, I might say “You find an object made of silver, about the size of your hand; what is it?”

Thanks and you should not the ddit i added after my first post and before your to that specific statement...

1 - I always have some "gimmicks" on hand for each PC - items that can be dropped that tie in with the character in some way - backstory, background, class and race are the basic four and i try to have four gimmicks for each character on hand. Whenever it seems good to toss something in - including on a strong roll - i toss in one for *a* character - often the one with the roll.

i realized that while i do want this to serve as a bonus of sorts for characters getting stuff out of their investments - i did not want it to seem limited to just those.

 

[Shiroiken]

Absolutely not. There is a significant difference between food & water, which theoretically exists beyond the needs of the players, and treasure, which is a specific reward.

That said, unless I have a specific reason for hiding the treasure, I simply assume the area can normally be thoroughly searched after the adventure is complete. Occasionally, however, there is an exception, such as a mega-dungeon or a time sensitive adventure.

 

[Lanefan]

Not a 5e DM but yes, "wandering treasure" (great term for it!) is a thing in my games...and not just the treasure sometimes carried by wandering x.p. - er, monsters.

I don't tie it specifically to the characters, though: if there's to be a treasure item specifically tied to a character it'll be pre-placed, not wandering. That said, I rarely if ever place treasure that's specific to any one character for two reasons: 1) the relevant character might well be dead by the time the treasure is found, and-or 2) there's a very real chance they'll miss it; it's sometimes quite amazing how much treasure gets missed, though there's other times when they do manage to hoover up every last copper piece.

Story tme: I was running a canned module in which one of the rooms is an intentional time-waster for the PCs - a room full of junk that takes over an hour to search. My players were in full-on hoover mode and couldn't believe there wasn't anything of value here after all that searching, so this (paraphrased) meta-game exchange followed:

DM: ...and after even more searching there's still nothing here.
Player: nothing at all? Really? You sure?
DM: yup, nothing here.
Player: nothing? not even a single copper piece?
DM: nope, nothing.
Player: just one copper? Pleeeease?
DM: OK, OK, you find a tarnished copper piece among the junk.
All: much laughter and cheering...

Good times.

 

[Blue]

4e did something that was eye opening - divorced treasure from looting. It had a good reason - treasure, specifically the magic item advancement treadmill, was built into character advancement math. But the idea of treasure packets was liberating. Mayor sends you out against bandits. Maybe you drive off the bandits and loot them - treasure worth X. Maybe you convinced them to give up their life of banditry ... and then the mayor gave you a reward worth X when you got back to town. Maybe you joined the bandit and his merry men, and got given items they couldn't use worth X.

Moving treasure, and through milestones XP, away from the kill-them-and-loot point of view that the mechanics rewarded, does a lot to move away from murderhobo beign the most mechanically supported way to play because that's how you got the rewards.

So yeah, if it's appropriate, why not. A merchant's donkey taken down by wolves with a saddlebag full of expensive spices. A holy spring that will supply up to 4 vials of holy water. (And taking more is selfish and it all becomes just normal water). The remains of a smuggler with his contraband, dead from natural causes. A circlet-crown of elven make recently unburied as an ancient oak has fallen during the thunderstorm. A seldom-blooming orchid used in the creation of magic potions, or berries used in making a rare blue ink. A battleground, well salvaged but thee's always something more. Heck, a good chunk of the list of spell components are things found in the wilderness, including a bunch with a GP cost.

The key there is if appropriate - well picked over ruins or whatever are not likely to have things. The further from civilization, the better. And, of course, that you want to give something to the characters.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The area outside of a dungeon is too large for me to map out, even if I wanted to. That's sufficient reason for a difference between indoors and outdoors. Inside of a dungeon, I can reasonably be expected to place everything of value. Outside of a dungeon, it would be impossible for me to place every rabbit and berry, so I use an algorithm which objectively simulates what the likely outcome of such a search would be, if I had been able to place everything beforehand (taking into account such factors as the probability of the character searching in a place where nothing exists, and their ability to spot something if it does exist).

One of the reasons I don't like wandering treasure is because I want to avoid the appearance of meta-gaming. I don't want it to look like I'm giving out loot based on my own personal preferences about what they should find or not. If I consult my map before answering what they find, then it looks less suspicious then if I ask them to roll and then give an answer off the top of my head.

 

[5ekyu]

4e did something that was eye opening - divorced treasure from looting. It had a good reason - treasure, specifically the magic item advancement treadmill, was built into character advancement math. But the idea of treasure packets was liberating. Mayor sends you out against bandits. Maybe you drive off the bandits and look them - treasure worth X. Maybe you convinced them to give up their life of banditry ... and then the mayor gave you a reward vs. X when you got back to town. Maybe you joined the bandit and his merry men, and got given items they couldn't use worth X.

Moving treasure, and through milestones XP, does a great deal to move away from the kill-them-and-loot murderhobo point of view that the mechanics rewarded.

So yeah, if it's appropriate, why not. A merchant's donkey taken down by wolves with a saddlebag full of expensive spices. A holy spring that will supply up to 4 vials of holy water. (And taking more is selfish and it all becomes just normal water). The remains of a smuggler with his contraband, dead from natural causes. A circlet-crown of elven make recently unburied as an ancient oak has fallen during the thunderstorm. A seldom-blooming orchid used in the creation of magic potions, or berries used in making a rare blue ink. A battleground, well salvaged but thee's always something more. Heck, a good chunk of the list of spell components are things found in the wilderness, including a bunch with a GP cost.

The key there is if appropriate - well picked over ruins or whatever are not likely to have things. The further from civilization, the better. And, of course, that you want to give something to the characters.

As an example, also in the mule carcass bags find the "scratch pad" or equivalent" of a wizard - not their spellbook, but evidence enough of their "figuring out spellbook" stuff, maybe even broken spilled vial of that special ink...

If there's no spellbook also found you can be these will get your party wizard hot off the fence on "do we track the rest down or keep moving"!!!

 

[5ekyu]

The area outside of a dungeon is too large for me to map out, even if I wanted to. That's sufficient reason for a difference between indoors and outdoors. Inside of a dungeon, I can reasonably be expected to place everything of value. Outside of a dungeon, it would be impossible for me to place every rabbit and berry, so I use an algorithm which objectively simulates what the likely outcome of such a search would be, if I had been able to place everything beforehand (taking into account such factors as the probability of the character searching in a place where nothing exists, and their ability to spot something if it does exist).

One of the reasons I don't like wandering treasure is because I want to avoid the appearance of meta-gaming. I don't want it to look like I'm giving out loot based on my own personal preferences about what they should find or not. If I consult my map before answering what they find, then it looks less suspicious then if I ask them to roll and then give an answer off the top of my head.

", I can reasonably be expected to place everything of value."

What i can say is this... My home is smaller than a dungeon. I live her. I would never claim a reasonable expectation that i can sit down and inventory every item of value in anything like the time i prep a dungeon in toto, much less the time i spend on the "items of value".

Ot would have to be a very sterile and spartan scene/site/scenery for me to expect that of a GM.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

", I can reasonably be expected to place everything of value."

What i can say is this... My home is smaller than a dungeon. I live her. I would never claim a reasonable expectation that i can sit down and inventory every item of value in anything like the time i prep a dungeon in toto, much less the time i spend on the "items of value".

Ot would have to be a very sterile and spartan scene/site/scenery for me to expect that of a GM.

The typical house in 2018 contains far more junk, and many more objects of value, than a typical dungeon in D&D.

Whether or not it is realistic for you to write down everything valuable during your prep phase is going to vary wildly depending on the amount of time you devote to it, your definition of value, and how much clutter you like to include in your dungeons. Just for me, personally, it's perfectly reasonable for me to place everything valuable in a dungeon ahead of time.