D&D 5E [5e] Gnoll

[clutchbone]

Do you think there is any other way to fairly express the pack mentality of the Gnoll? It feels core, but if it's too strong I don't mind cutting it. I want a fair race, one that's equal to other options, not an OP race that overshadows.

I notice you mention I should go with strength. Should I go with +2 Str, +1 Con? I like the idea of +2 Str, +1 Cha because only 1 other race has that, and they're pretty scary.

Ability Score Increase. Your Strength score increases by 2, and your Charisma score increases by 1.
Age. Gnolls reach adulthood as soon as they are spawned from bloated Hyenas that have feasted on blood from the slaughter and live up to 50 years, but rarely do so from their constant marauding.
Alignment. Gnolls are driven by an insatiable demonic hunger and blood-lust that instinctively drives them to slaughter and destroy which makes them both Chaotic unbound to laws and evil as they are corrupted with demonic blood and blessing. However if a Gnoll were to be cleansed of its demonic corruption and severed from its demonic lord it may become a rational sentient being capable of choosing to be good or at least neutral.
Size. Gnolls are between 7 feet tall and 7 foot six inches tall. They weigh between 280 and 320 lbs. Your size is medium.
Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.
Ferocious Hunters. You have proficiency in the Intimidate and Perception skills.
Resourceful Scavengers. You have proficiency with the longbow, the shortbow and the heavy crossbow.
Bite. Your fanged maw is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with it, you deal piercing damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier, instead of the bludgeoning damage normal for an unarmed strike.
Rampage. When the gnoll reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack on its turn, the gnoll can take a bonus action to move up to half its speed and make a bite attack.
Languages. You can speak, read, and write Gnoll and Common.

I'd change Charisma. I get that you feel strongly about intimidation, but that's just 1/4 of Cha skills and I don't see Gnolls as being naturally good at persuasion, deception, or performance. Charisma, as per the phb, "includes such factors as confidence and eloquence, and it can represent a charming or commanding personality". Intimidation proficiency would be good enough... unless you are trying to promote Gnoll valor bards & paladins?

I'd also change Perception with Survival, as that's what you track prey with, but either is fine.

"Resourceful Scavengers" doesn't relate much to bows, like you don't need to shoot at carrion. Maybe something like "Vicious Harrier" or simple "Gnoll Weapon Training", a la Elves?

 

[Ravinsild]

I'd change Charisma. I get that you feel strongly about intimidation, but that's just 1/4 of Cha skills and I don't see Gnolls as being naturally good at persuasion, deception, or performance. Charisma, as per the phb, "includes such factors as confidence and eloquence, and it can represent a charming or commanding personality". Intimidation proficiency would be good enough... unless you are trying to promote Gnoll valor bards & paladins?

I'd also change Perception with Survival, as that's what you track prey with, but either is fine.

"Resourceful Scavengers" doesn't relate much to bows, like you don't need to shoot at carrion. Maybe something like "Vicious Harrier" or simple "Gnoll Weapon Training", a la Elves?

Well, I just feel like so many races are +2 Str, +1 Con, so it didn't feel very special you know? Charisma felt unique as only Dragonborn share it. Dex is too strong, I know Bugbears do it, but they're the only ones. Wisdom and Intelligence don't seem to fit though. I guess when in doubt just pile on the Str/Con train lol.

The names of the racial abilities are taken from the 4e PDF and Volo's Guide to Monsters lore honestly. Mostly it's based on Volo's lore. Perception was based on Volo's lore too. I don't mind changing it to survival or just leaving them with 1 skill proficiency (intimidation).

An excerpt from the "Omens from Beyond" to support my choice in Perception:
"Of all the demon lords, Yeenoghu is perhaps the most active on the Material Plane. He shows support to his followers by sending them omens in the form of visions, dreams, and signs. As such, gnolls instinctively look for such omens to guide their activities, and they find them in many places.

Among the signs that gnolls rely on are the blood trails and spatters left behind after making a meal of an intelligent humanoid. They attach significance to a number of other phenomena as well, including the sight of arrows in flight, the rush of the wind, and sounds of howling or cackling laughter that have no discernible source." source WotC

In addition the resourceful scavenger bits read:
"Almost every gnoll carries a bow scavenged from a past victim. Gnolls use ranged attacks mainly to prevent their prey from fleeing, rather than softening up their targets with an initial barrage of arrows before an assault. A target wounded by a bow shot becomes easy prey for any gnolls near it. Some particularly clever gnolls have been known to use burning arrows to spark fires, cutting off their prey's escape routes and driving victims into their jaws." source WotC

In addition to:
"Like the hyenas they resemble, gnolls have no qualms about scavenging the kills of other predators as a source of food. But for the gnolls, scavenging plays a deeper cultural role. The gnolls of Yeenoghu create little of their own; the vast majority of their belongings are things they have claimed from their kills. Few among the Butcher’s Brood have any gift for metalworking, and they rely on victories and heirlooms as a source of arms and armor. This creates an unusual aesthetic to gnoll armor, which is largely pieced together from multiple victims."

 

[clutchbone]

Well, I just feel like so many races are +2 Str, +1 Con, so it didn't feel very special you know? Charisma felt unique as only Dragonborn share it. Dex is too strong, I know Bugbears do it, but they're the only ones. Wisdom and Intelligence don't seem to fit though. I guess when in doubt just pile on the Str/Con train lol.

The names of the racial abilities are taken from the 4e PDF and Volo's Guide to Monsters lore honestly. Mostly it's based on Volo's lore. Perception was based on Volo's lore too. I don't mind changing it to survival or just leaving them with 1 skill proficiency (intimidation).

An excerpt from the "Omens from Beyond" to support my choice in Perception:
"Of all the demon lords, Yeenoghu is perhaps the most active on the Material Plane. He shows support to his followers by sending them omens in the form of visions, dreams, and signs. As such, gnolls instinctively look for such omens to guide their activities, and they find them in many places.

Among the signs that gnolls rely on are the blood trails and spatters left behind after making a meal of an intelligent humanoid. They attach significance to a number of other phenomena as well, including the sight of arrows in flight, the rush of the wind, and sounds of howling or cackling laughter that have no discernible source." source WotC

In addition the resourceful scavenger bits read:
"Almost every gnoll carries a bow scavenged from a past victim. Gnolls use ranged attacks mainly to prevent their prey from fleeing, rather than softening up their targets with an initial barrage of arrows before an assault. A target wounded by a bow shot becomes easy prey for any gnolls near it. Some particularly clever gnolls have been known to use burning arrows to spark fires, cutting off their prey's escape routes and driving victims into their jaws." source WotC

In addition to:
"Like the hyenas they resemble, gnolls have no qualms about scavenging the kills of other predators as a source of food. But for the gnolls, scavenging plays a deeper cultural role. The gnolls of Yeenoghu create little of their own; the vast majority of their belongings are things they have claimed from their kills. Few among the Butcher’s Brood have any gift for metalworking, and they rely on victories and heirlooms as a source of arms and armor. This creates an unusual aesthetic to gnoll armor, which is largely pieced together from multiple victims."

I want to preface this with "whatever you want to do, that's cool. These are only the musings of an internet stranger." I don't want to come off as "Turn your homebrew into my homebrew" or anything. I just like talking D&D.

Str/dex might actually work as it gives them a very "physical" feel, they're strong and quick, without dipping into the over-used str/con well. Dex is usually considered too strong because it allows dumping Str, but you've provided a great reason for Gnoll players to not do that, for Rampage.

Perception is more noticing something in your surroundings that is physically hard to notice. With the Signs from Yeenoghu thing, I read that to mean these are things that are not physically hidden; everyone can perceive the blood splatters, but these Gnolls think that they mean something, that there is a message in those entrails. If you wanted to mechanically represent that, maybe religion proficiency? Or go the Stonecunning route and do something like:

Whenever you make an Intelligence (History)(Religion) check related to the origin of stonework Abyssal rituals and omens, you are considered proficient in the (History)Religion skill and add double your proficiency bonus to the check, instead of your normal proficiency bonus.

Or, maybe it's just a roleplaying thing without a mechanical benefit, like elven aloofness or dwarven surliness. Gnolls be crazy, seeing the signs from their overlord everywhere, even where they aren't. I'd actually love to roleplay that, now that I'm imagining it.

"Resourceful Scavenger" just from the title sounds like an ability that helps Gnolls to find things that others might pass over. Like this title wouldn't be out of place for a feature giving Gnolls perception/survival. Even though it says they scavenge their bows (and I do think bow proficiency makes sense), it still seems like an out of place name for bow proficiency, is all.

 

[Ravinsild]

I want to preface this with "whatever you want to do, that's cool. These are only the musings of an internet stranger." I don't want to come off as "Turn your homebrew into my homebrew" or anything. I just like talking D&D.

Str/dex might actually work as it gives them a very "physical" feel, they're strong and quick, without dipping into the over-used str/con well. Dex is usually considered too strong because it allows dumping Str, but you've provided a great reason for Gnoll players to not do that, for Rampage.

Perception is more noticing something in your surroundings that is physically hard to notice. With the Signs from Yeenoghu thing, I read that to mean these are things that are not physically hidden; everyone can perceive the blood splatters, but these Gnolls think that they mean something, that there is a message in those entrails. If you wanted to mechanically represent that, maybe religion proficiency? Or go the Stonecunning route and do something like:



Or, maybe it's just a roleplaying thing without a mechanical benefit, like elven aloofness or dwarven surliness. Gnolls be crazy, seeing the signs from their overlord everywhere, even where they aren't. I'd actually love to roleplay that, now that I'm imagining it.

"Resourceful Scavenger" just from the title sounds like an ability that helps Gnolls to find things that others might pass over. Like this title wouldn't be out of place for a feature giving Gnolls perception/survival. Even though it says they scavenge their bows (and I do think bow proficiency makes sense), it still seems like an out of place name for bow proficiency, is all.

I'm of two minds on that stats. I don't want to follow the crowd because then I feel it waters down the race, you know? But standard is SAFER but it also ups competition. Also races like Yuan-ti and Tiefling, who are notoriously villainous races which go through a large amount of prejudice have charisma bonuses. So do pretty races like half-elves, but from the lore I've read, nobody likes Yuan-ti or Tieflings. They are /always/ regarded with suspicion so I figured "why not take a change?" and pick something a little out of the box. Str/Con is probably the best bet that won't raise too many eyebrows though.

Yeah I've been of 3 minds about the skills thing.

1) Turn it into Investigation, or like your idea, Investigation only when searching for signs. However I'd like to keep the possibility of a generic, non-demonic Gnoll open, like described in the 4e Article on them.

2) Keep it, I know Perception is strong, but this race isn't exactly 1st pick for a lot of things I'm going to guess. It's bonuses are pretty niche if anything.

3) Delete it. Just have Intimidation full stop. 1 Skill. Only 4 races have a bonus in two skills, but several more have a bonus in only 1 and it would lower the score nerfing the race more dead center of the pack instead of, score wise, slightly above average.

I've also gotten some feedback on Reddit and some people have been acting like I've made the most disgustingly broken and OP race ever. The funny thing is that it's just copy/paste from other races abilities. I didn't write anything original, I only arranged it. Rampage is from the MM Gnoll. The Bite attack is copy/paste from Volo's Lizardfolk. The skill proficiencies are cut and paste from like over half the races, not the exact skills, but just skill bonuses in general. Same with weapons. In fact, most races that get weapon proficiencies get 4 weapons, not 3 and usually of a greater variety (Some melee, some ranged) but not always. So even the weapon profs aren't on the powerful side. Over half the races have Darkvision to the point where it's NEARLY standard.

I'm just glad I'm getting quality feedback and able to hash out my decisions, defend them, and also be open to changing my mind. I just want to make a fair race that a lot of people would look at and think "Hey that looks pretty good, maybe I'll play that instead of Half-Orc for my Barbarian" you know?

 

[Razamis]

Strength bonus really does not make sense for playable Gnolls. Gnolls are large, but they are lanky and agile, especially when compared to races that do get a strength racial bonus like an orc or a mountain dwarf. Gnolls favor bows which suggests some capability with them, and bows are a dexterity trait. Lastly Gnolls are the archetypical monstrous evil rangers, and rangers often favour dex.

The justification that you use for giving gnolls a strength bonus is from Volo's guide where it states "Strength, hunger and fear are the three concepts that every Gnoll extols.". In this case Strength is not meant as in lifting capability and muscles, it's meant as in strength over your foes, lack of weakness, and domination. There are many ways to use the word strength, such as strength of character, or mental strength. Gnolls value strength, but differently then orcs value strength. Orcs value strength in a way that they may physically wrestle and over power their opponent. Gnolls value strength in a way that they do whatever is necessary to achieve dominance over an opponent, and since they may not be physically stronger, the use cheap tactics like ganging up, bows to finish people at a range or set fire to villages, etc..

On a side note, D&D5e does a very poor job with Gnolls in the monster manual. Rampage is an ability, that on a monster, will not get used very often at all since PCs often won't be dropping like flies to Gnolls. In fact, PCs often won't ever drop to gnolls, and thus the gnoll essentially has no special racial ability. I would have preferred that WoTC gave gnolls a "when bloodied" ability, or a pack tactics gang-up ability, or some scent bonus, something beneficial for the situations gnolls will actually be in against PCs.

As for your work on creating a gnoll playable race, I think that you put a lot of thought and effort in to it and so good stuff. However I respectfully must say, that even though the points work out for race creation, the result is not something that is useful, and aside from how racial stats may work out for one class or another, there is really not much useful here that someone would want to play a gnoll for, especially when compared with Human, halfling, or elf options.

- +2 Dex, +1 Con - This is good. (drop strength, that simply does not fit in any way).

- Darkvision - This is good, and useful in game. Lot's of races have this though, so it's doesn't make this race special.

- 30 speed - I liked the 4e idea of giving gnolls 35 movement.

- Longbow Proficiency - This makes lore sense, but is almost entirely useless in practice. If the gnoll is a class that can make use of this feature, they likely already get this proficiency from the class (ranger, fighter, barbarian). If their class would not have granted them this proficiency (Sorcerer, Wizard, Cleric), they are likely never going to be better off using it then a simple cantrip. Thematically it's neat, but in play it's not very useful.

- Bite - This makes sense for the race, it will almost never be worth using over any other attack option outside of rampage, but natural weapons can be situationally useful.

- Rampage - This ability is much more useful for a PC then it is for the Gnoll as a monster fighting PCs. The problem is that it costs a bonus action, and it is yet another feature that makes duel-wielding a less attractive option for PCs with this racial trait. Unfortunate in the case of a Gnoll PC, given the link between gnolls and rangers.

- Perception and either Stealth or Intimidate? Intimidate feels more...fundamental. Stealth only 1 guy has. - Perception is good, fits nice with the canid sense of smell thing.

- Common, Gnoll Language. Maybe Abyssal? - I'd just make it Abyssal.

At the end of the day, the useful items are Darkvision, Rampage for non-duel-wielders, and Perception. Perception and Darkvision are not unique racial features. The only thing that makes this not just a "crappier elf" is Rampage. I like the direction of rampage for a gnoll PC because of that. But compare some other monstrous PC races like Lizardfolk Hold Breath, Swimming Speed, Bite, and Natural Armor, all unique lizardfolky stuff. Or compare the Tabaxi "Feline Agility", consider how much better that feature is, and it's free, not a bonus action, but they get one additional unique racial feature "Climbing speed" due to their claws, VERY useful. My point here is that the Gnoll you present is missing one feature, in addition to rampage, that makes the gnoll race feel more unlike every other PC race. (some sort of pack tactics, or berserk when bloodied, might do it).