D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

Remathilis

Legend
You could maybe convince me of one. But if you do both, you rip the whole flavor of the setting out. Thee setting is build on the idea that the gods are gone, arcane spells are destructive, and something fills the gap (psionics). These things fuel the setting. If nothing changes, Athas makes no sense. There are no Sorcerer-kings nor world covered in desert not all the cultures there.
My personal take would be a psionic class that acts something like a spell point sorcerer with a curated spell list and all the other classes just get a dose of flavor-text, a general rule for defiling when casting, and occasionally an appropriate subclass, but no mechanical changes. YMMV.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
I think that could even be solved with the right pact - one with yourself that says that many such warlocks bleed out of their nose and ears with too much power use. The trinkets (book, chain, blade, trinket) might need to be blocked by the subclass or you might say that the trinket is a 3.5 style psionic crystal and the book is notes and brute force.
I think trying to shoehorn psionics into a warlock pact is a bit too much of a stretch. But it makes total sense to use an existing "magic architecture" for a psion class. If wizards, sorcerers, clerics, bards, and druids can share the same casting system, why not warlocks and psions? It reduces the learning curve to stick with a familiar model, and that model has now benefited from years of testing and fine-tuning. And the warlock system is a very nice fit for the psion: A sturdy at-will attack with various optional riders, a set of always-on powers to choose from, and a small supply of fast-refreshing spell slots.

For paladins (and if I had my way, clerics too), I would go the "DM permission" route. If you want to play one, you have to get your DM's explicit okay, and if you do, you are a once-in-a-lifetime mystery. You may recruit other people to your faith, but their prayers don't get answered--only yours do. Have you really reached beyond the veil and made contact with gods? Or does your magic come from some buried artifact or a denizen of the wastes? No one knows, including you, and if you ever do uncover the truth, you'll probably regret it.
 


Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
So on a quick comparison of the Psionic Soul from the UA to the final Aberrant mind, you can see where the abberation flavor was added.

I bring all this up to say that the AM and PS are similar mechanically, but the AM is purposefully made creepy, unnatural, and Lovecraftian. If there was some generic psionic caster (akin to psy-knight or soul knife) that'd be fine, but there isn't so the deep implication is that psionic powers are evil, unnnatural, and icky, I think there are a lot of people who would have preferred a cleaner take on psionics that could be flavored as Aberrant, Dreamy, Intense Discipline, Weird Mutant Powers, or the like rather than be forced into one "mindflayer-esque" mold.
Cutting your post down for thread bloat... but yes. Exactly this. 100% agreed.
 

For me, the flavor is a no-go. Even just calling a Psion a "warlock" would be a nonstarter for me.

I admit the mechanics are excellent, with powerful at-wills, and the ability to "go nova" as a fullcaster with spell-levels 8 and 9.

But the Psion must be built from the ground up as its own class with its own flavor.
This is what I am hearing. The name "Psion" or equivalent is essential.

On the other hand I believe that with only one new class in seven years WotC has made clear just how little they want to add classes. And unless what the class is trying to do really isn't covered by other classes I think they have the right approach - and 5e sales are good enough that they also aren't going to make major changes.

They have also added psychic subclasses to the game meaning that a lot of psionic concepts and playstyles are covered. Which unless clear water can be found both thematically and mechanically between what's requested and what's already there makes a new class even less likely.

All of which means it's likely that WotC doesn't think Athas needs the Psion because there are already psychic characters in D&D. Which is just as well because if it did then Athas would be a lot less likely.

And the book that introduced psionics? Tasha's introduced three explicit psychic subclasses (soulknife, psychic warrior, aberrant mind) which means it may be the ramp up suggested.

When I asked what people wanted I was hoping to find something lurking that anyone even with no connection to D&D's history could see was clearly new and cool. Doesn't seem to be.
 



Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
This is what I am hearing. The name "Psion" or equivalent is essential.

On the other hand I believe that with only one new class in seven years WotC has made clear just how little they want to add classes. And unless what the class is trying to do really isn't covered by other classes I think they have the right approach - and 5e sales are good enough that they also aren't going to make major changes.

They have also added psychic subclasses to the game meaning that a lot of psionic concepts and playstyles are covered. Which unless clear water can be found both thematically and mechanically between what's requested and what's already there makes a new class even less likely.

All of which means it's likely that WotC doesn't think Athas needs the Psion because there are already psychic characters in D&D. Which is just as well because if it did then Athas would be a lot less likely.

And the book that introduced psionics? Tasha's introduced three explicit psychic subclasses (soulknife, psychic warrior, aberrant mind) which means it may be the ramp up suggested.

When I asked what people wanted I was hoping to find something lurking that anyone even with no connection to D&D's history could see was clearly new and cool. Doesn't seem to be.
Clear water exists, Neon. You just can't see it.

Psionicists use Power points to pump their Talents, Disciplines, or Sciences. They don't cast spells. They can function as battlefield manipulators, healers, blasters, and Gish.

Hell. The name Gish -came- from Psionic Githyanki Warriors combining their psionic skills with melee prowess.

They're telepaths and telekineticists. They're Psychic Chiurgeons and Metacreatives. They use their will to directly modify reality rather than spellcraft and ancient languages.

There's a whole boatload of mechanics you could use to create a Psionicist class that feels vastly different from "Wizard" or "Sorcerer" to a similar degree as the Artificer or Warlock does.

Years ago I tried to build a proper Psionicist out of the Mystic mess. The first thing I did? Narrowed down the Disciplines list. Then I gave them a few unique abilities.

First, that they could use their Intelligence Modifier in place of any other modifier when rolling saving throws. It didn't give them -proficiency- in Strength saves, but made them marginally better at it than other characters would be on their poor saves.

Second, the ability to concentrate on two Psionic Powers at the same time. With a curated list of powers they couldn't stack a whole mess of crazy big fun stuff, but it was a neat twist that made them feel super different.

Third, Consumptive Power. Each day they could sacrifice a limited number of their Hit Points directly as if they were Power Points for use in powers. 10hp/long rest was the maximum. And it reduced your max HP by that amount, so having someone toss a heal didn't instantly fix it.

Add in some Psionic Quanta, which functioned similarly to Eldritch Invocations but could often be boosted with Power Points, and voila!

You had a unique and interesting class that wasn't a Sorcerer or a Wizard.

If I could do that, 3 years ago, based on the UA Mystic, surely WotC can do better.
 

Although honestly only one of the four feels actually wrong. You're telling me my telekinetic can fly but they glow slightly when they do? Sure - I'm pretty sure Jean Grey actually does this. My telepath can detect minds and the hidden but it shows in their eyes as they turn black? I'll buy that. My telekinetic creates telekinetic webbing between their fingers and filters oxygen out of the water to swim? Or my body control psychic grows gills? Why not.

Which just leaves the squeezing through a space 1" wide. Now this one I have no justification for and doesn't feel right to me.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
And I'll concede the point on Revelation in Flesh. I wonder why they did that.
It's simple. Because they're not meant to be Psionicists they're meant to be Aberrations. The writers decided to add all that grossness to separate the Aberrant Mind out from Psionicists. So that Aberrant Mind sorcs would have psionic stuff, but not be the Psion for 5e.
Although honestly only one of the four feels actually wrong. You're telling me my telekinetic can fly but they glow slightly when they do? Sure - I'm pretty sure Jean Grey actually does this. My telepath can detect minds and the hidden but it shows in their eyes as they turn black? I'll buy that. My telekinetic creates telekinetic webbing between their fingers and filters oxygen out of the water to swim? Or my body control psychic grows gills? Why not.

Which just leaves the squeezing through a space 1" wide. Now this one I have no justification for and doesn't feel right to me.
Yeah... yeah... They literally took the "Basic Psionic" stuff they tacked on to Sorcerer and reflavored the hell out of it with toothpaste and orange juice. The mechanics are "Sure..?" but you're never getting that taste out of our mouths.
 
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