D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

And goodbye @tetrasodium - I was going to reblock you anyway but you've saved me the trouble. Claiming I keep hammering on at a rule of thumb when IIRC I mentioned it once as part of a wider point is pretty useless especially with how fiddly things get.
 

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Yaarel

He Mage
The spellcasting mechanics of the Warlock class is perfect for a Psion. However, the flavor is severely wrong.

Wizard and Cleric are different classes with different flavors, but share the same spellcasting mechanics.

It is easy enough to make a Psion class that shares the same spellcasting mechanics as the Warlock class.

Psion has an internal mindful flavor, instead of external bargaining flavor.
 

Remathilis

Legend
No it's that the Power Sources have changed and the classes change with them.

Arcane is nerfed
Divine is now DEAD
Primal stays the same
Martial stays the same
Psionics is buffed hard
Elemental is buffed slightly
Tech is still Dead
Shadow is barely a thing

So Clerics switch to Elemental and become rarer than Primal using Druids. Paladins switch to Arcane. Rangers go full Martial or stick to Primal. Arcanists exist but are the rarest casters. Full on Wizards must hide. Bards switch to Psionics or Primal. Sorcery expresses itself as Elementalism or Psioncs instead of Arcane. And Psionic users become the most common type of "mage".
How much of that is semantics though? Its not like power-source is a REAL thing in 5e. So a sorcerer uses elementalism or Psionics to fuel their "magic". What changes? They are still casting fireball, magic missile or detect thoughts, right? A cleric using elementals has a new domain(s) or uses light/nature/tempest domains, but still has cure wounds and turn undead though?

I mean, justify it however you want, and if you need to describe a paladin as arcane or psionic to feel good, in the end it doesn't change how the class works.
 

The spellcasting mechanics of the Warlock class is perfect for a Psion. However, the flavor is severely wrong.

Wizard and Cleric are different classes with different flavors, but share the same spellcasting mechanics.

It is easy enough to make a Psion class that shares the same spellcasting mechanics as the Warlock class.

Psion has an internal mindful flavor, instead of external bargaining flavor.
I think that could even be solved with the right pact - one with yourself that says that many such warlocks bleed out of their nose and ears with too much power use. The trinkets (book, chain, blade, trinket) might need to be blocked by the subclass or you might say that the trinket is a 3.5 style psionic crystal and the book is notes and brute force.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
I think that could even be solved with the right pact - one with yourself that says that many such warlocks bleed out of their nose and ears with too much power, use. The trinkets (book, chain, blade, trinket) might need to be blocked by the subclass or you might say that the trinket is a 3.5 style psionic crystal and the book is notes and brute force.
For me, the flavor is a no-go. Even just calling a Psion a "warlock" would be a nonstarter for me.

I admit the mechanics are excellent, with powerful at-wills, and the ability to "go nova" as a fullcaster with spell-levels 8 and 9.

But the Psion must be built from the ground up as its own class with its own flavor.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
For me the most important aspects of the Psion are:
• Telepathy and Charm
• Divination and Teleportation
• Shapechange and Healing
• Telekinesis (Flight, Force Damage, Force Constructs)

At the very least, that is four Psion subclass archetypes right there.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
How much of that is semantics though? Its not like power-source is a REAL thing in 5e.
Kinda is. Kinda isn't. 5e Wizards still can'theal but 5e clerics who worship gods can. Power sources both exist and don't.

BUT...
on Athas, the gods are GONE. The advantages and disadvantages clerics had from being a servant of a god is gone. It's up to us to decide it Magic from Dieties is exactly the same as Magic from Elements.
So a sorcerer uses elementalism or Psionics to fuel their "magic". What changes? They are still casting fireball, magic missile or detect thoughts, right?
Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. Personally I'd change their whole spell list to only include elemental, primal, and mental spells.

A cleric using elementals has a new domain(s) or uses light/nature/tempest domains, but still has cure wounds and turn undead though?
I'd remove cure wounds and turn undead. The gods are gone so clerics lack enmity to their enemies and support to their goals. They now serve the elements or primordials.

I mean, justify it however you want, and if you need to describe a paladin as arcane or psionic to feel good, in the end it doesn't change how the class works.

I'd take away their Lay of Hands and give them an arcane ranged force attack.

Personally a Dark sun where both
  1. There are no psion(icist)s
  2. The other classes work the same
is a waste of time and nor Dark Sun.

You could maybe convince me of one. But if you do both, you rip the whole flavor of the setting out. Thee setting is build on the idea that the gods are gone, arcane spells are destructive, and something fills the gap (psionics). These things fuel the setting. If nothing changes, Athas makes no sense. There are no Sorcerer-kings nor world covered in desert not all the cultures there.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
People told me that the Aberrant Mind was more of a far realm character because there are too many tentacles involved. There are tentacles involved in literally four spells it can take and all of them can be swapped out for divination or enchantment spells by the rules as written. So getting rid of the tentacles isn't hard and can be done by the rules as written, not changing one single one of the mechanics. You were born with your powers is one listed option for their origin so literally the only connection you need to have with the far realm other than having to keep but not cast one tentacle spell for one level before you can swap it out is the name "Aberrant Mind".
That's wild!

They then told me a list of things wanted including spell points and the ability to tweak spells and I compared that list to the Aberrant Mind and found it fits just about all the mechanical criteria given. It even for all practical purposes uses spell points from level 6 onwards ffs. Metamagic lets you alter your spells and manipulate them far more intricately than normal magicians can. And more intricately than Eldritch Blast that mostly does damage. It fits all the criteria listed so far as I can tell other than not being a sorcerer.
That's Amazing!

When someone says "I don't want X because Y" I tend to check if Y is actually true.
Tentacle spells aren't the issue I'm talking about. I'm talking about the class mechanic they get specifically as an Aberrant Mind Sorcerer that has them change their body to go boneless and slip through keyholes, gain blindsight and solid black eyes, or get covered in mucus that lets them fly.

Like that's the Aberrant Mind, not sorcerer spell choices, thing. Though while we're on the topic: Spells. Psionicists don't have Spells. They get powers. Different conceptual thing where the power comes from within rather than from without. Using the focus and power of your mind to alter reality rather than doing a Konami Code while chanting an ad Jingle.

We want a Psionicist Class. We don't want the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer because it is not a Psionicist. It doesn't matter how much you wheedle about similarities you personally perceive, it ain't it.

You'd have been better off saying "Just make a Great Old One Warlock and use the Knockback/Pull Eldritch Blast Invocations and stuff!" and at least it would've been at least -somewhat- closer to the description you were -directly- given.
 

Remathilis

Legend
People told me that the Aberrant Mind was more of a far realm character because there are too many tentacles involved. There are tentacles involved in literally four spells it can take and all of them can be swapped out for divination or enchantment spells by the rules as written. So getting rid of the tentacles isn't hard and can be done by the rules as written, not changing one single one of the mechanics. You were born with your powers is one listed option for their origin so literally the only connection you need to have with the far realm other than having to keep but not cast one tentacle spell for one level before you can swap it out is the name "Aberrant Mind".
That's wild!

They then told me a list of things wanted including spell points and the ability to tweak spells and I compared that list to the Aberrant Mind and found it fits just about all the mechanical criteria given. It even for all practical purposes uses spell points from level 6 onwards ffs. Metamagic lets you alter your spells and manipulate them far more intricately than normal magicians can. And more intricately than Eldritch Blast that mostly does damage. It fits all the criteria listed so far as I can tell other than not being a sorcerer.
That's Amazing!

When someone says "I don't want X because Y" I tend to check if Y is actually true.
So on a quick comparison of the Psionic Soul from the UA to the final Aberrant mind, you can see where the abberation flavor was added.

Origins:
Not a rule, but the AM has six origins that all deal with aberations or otherwise "creepy" powers. Whereas the PS origins are 10, and while there are repeats, a few additional ones include training with githyanki, drinking from a stream in the feywild, recovering from a near-death experience, or growing up near a sapphire dragon.

Psionic Spells/Telepathic Speech vs. Psionic Talent
Mechanically, these are very different beasts, but controlling for that, the PS can learn an extra divination/enchantment spell, use telepath,y or cast spells without VSM at level 1. The AM has a fixed list of spells known (that does include some more far-realmy spells like the Hadar spells, black tentacles, and summon aberration) which requires the PC to swap out. Net effect is the same (bonus spells, telepathy) but the AM has far more "sinister" abilities.

Psionic Sorcery/Psychic Defenses vs Psychic Strike
Thematically, both fit the general psionic feel, so its a wash.

Revelation in Flesh vs Mind Over Body.
This is literally the same ability, but the AM's version uses creepier language. The four effects are the same. To Whit:

Revelation in Flesh
14th-level Aberrant Mind feature

You can unleash the aberrant truth hidden within yourself. As a bonus action, you can spend 1 or more sorcery points to magically transform your body for 10 minutes. For each sorcery point you spend, you can gain one of the following benefits of your choice, the effects of which last until the transformation ends:

You can see any invisible creature within 60 feet of you, provided it isn't behind total cover. Your eyes also turn black or become writhing sensory tendrils.
You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed, and you can hover. As you fly, your skin glistens with mucus or shines with an otherworldly light.
You gain a swimming speed equal to twice your walking speed, and you can breathe underwater. Moreover, gills grow from your neck or fan out from behind your ears, your fingers become webbed, or you grow writhing cilia that extend through your clothing.
Your body, along with any equipment you are wearing or carrying, becomes slimy and pliable. You can move through any space as narrow as 1 inch without squeezing, and you can spend 5 feet of movement to escape from nonmagical restraints or being grappled.

Mind Over Body
14th-level Psionic Soul feature
You can now use the psi that flows through you to give your body extraordinary abilities. As a bonus action, you can roll your Psionic Talent die and spend 1 or more sorcery points to magically transform yourself for a number of hours equal to the number rolled. Until the transformation ends, you gain one of the following benefits of your choice for each sorcery point you spent, choosing a different benefit for each point:

You can see any invisible creature within 60 feet of you, provided it isn't behind total cover.
You gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed, and you can hover.
You gain a swimming speed equal to twice your walking speed, and you can breathe underwater.
Your body, along with any equipment you are wearing or carrying, becomes pliable. You can move through any space as narrow as 1 inch without squeezing, and you can spend 5 feet of movement to escape from nonmagical restraints or being grappled.

The Last Ability Is Warping Implosion vs. Psychic Aura. They are similar, creating an area of psionic damage but the details are different. In the End though, the AM one again implies otherworldly or Lovecraftian flavor, while the PS is more psionically generic.

I bring all this up to say that the AM and PS are similar mechanically, but the AM is purposefully made creepy, unnatural, and Lovecraftian. If there was some generic psionic caster (akin to psy-knight or soul knife) that'd be fine, but there isn't so the deep implication is that psionic powers are evil, unnnatural, and icky, I think there are a lot of people who would have preferred a cleaner take on psionics that could be flavored as Aberrant, Dreamy, Intense Discipline, Weird Mutant Powers, or the like rather than be forced into one "mindflayer-esque" mold.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
Psychic healers, healing by means of psychic energy, is a thing. Psychometabolism can heal others as well as self, and can shapechange others as well as self.

No need for gods.
 

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