D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[Yaarel]

The 1e/2e spell-less bard’s cultural roll in the Tablelands was a nifty concept, but cramming that roll onto the bard class was eye-rollingly dumb back then. In 5e the role is best filled by the Assassin with an entertainer background.

Yeah, I hope the Darksun "bard" is instead renamed a "Troubadour" or a "Minstrel", simply to avoid confusion with the class called Bard.

A background is perfect.

While normally a Rogue would take this "Troubadour" background, maybe any class could. The background would grant features involving both entertainment and criminality.

 

[Yaarel]

They can apply defiling and preserving to Bardic magic.

Bards with their mind-affecting features (and sonic-kinesis) always felt Psionic to me. The Bard class is excellent for a Shaman, because of the Charisma, healing, shapeshifting, chanting, divination, trickery, and so on. Total Shaman!

 

[Yaarel]

My point is the whole core if the lore runs on bans or alterations.

If WOTC is afraid to ban classes and races or make a book with 5+ subclasses, they can't make a Dark Sun worth buying that even looks or feels like Dark Sun.

The Darksun setting can easily list a minimal number of classes and subclasses that are suitable for "classic" Darksun. Then go into narrative detail for how these subclasses fit within the setting. Then tell the DM to do whatever they want with regard to the other classes.

 

[Steampunkette]

Bards in both 2e and 5e were Arcane Spellcasters, though 2e Bards kinda sucked at it by comparison, since they were multiclassed to hell and back.

The "Oh they just couldn't use the name Assassin" thing is a little bit of simplistic revisionism. They didn't take Wizard Levels back in Athas and instead had a bunch of different poisons and stuff to replace the little bit of spellcasting they lost.

So a 5e Bard would either need to begin dealing with Preserving/Defiling, which they didn't in 2e, or lose access to their spellcasting levels, which they did.

Though you could make a Rogue Archetype named Bard and have it be a poison-master entertainer type deal? It wouldn't just be "Rogue with a Background and leave Minstrels as Arcane Casters"

 

[Rikka66]

Bards in both 2e and 5e were Arcane Spellcasters, though 2e Bards kinda sucked at it by comparison, since they were multiclassed to hell and back.

The "Oh they just couldn't use the name Assassin" thing is a little bit of simplistic revisionism. They didn't take Wizard Levels back in Athas and instead had a bunch of different poisons and stuff to replace the little bit of spellcasting they lost.

So a 5e Bard would either need to begin dealing with Preserving/Defiling, which they didn't in 2e, or lose access to their spellcasting levels, which they did.

Though you could make a Rogue Archetype named Bard and have it be a poison-master entertainer type deal? It wouldn't just be "Rogue with a Background and leave Minstrels as Arcane Casters"

4e had them deal with preserving/defiling and made Athasian Minstrel a theme anyone could take. Since they already marked the Whisperer subclass as intended for Dark Sun I don't think they will try to dig the full caster out if the Bard just for a subclass.

 

[Maxperson]

Bards in both 2e and 5e were Arcane Spellcasters, though 2e Bards kinda sucked at it by comparison, since they were multiclassed to hell and back.

The "Oh they just couldn't use the name Assassin" thing is a little bit of simplistic revisionism. They didn't take Wizard Levels back in Athas and instead had a bunch of different poisons and stuff to replace the little bit of spellcasting they lost.

So a 5e Bard would either need to begin dealing with Preserving/Defiling, which they didn't in 2e, or lose access to their spellcasting levels, which they did.

Though you could make a Rogue Archetype named Bard and have it be a poison-master entertainer type deal? It wouldn't just be "Rogue with a Background and leave Minstrels as Arcane Casters"

Bards in 3e and 4e were also Arcane. I can see the logic behind @Yaarel's view of them as psionic, but that is not my view. I don't see a Bard using mind powers, so much as specializing in arcane charm magic and a few other eclectic abilities.

 

[Yaarel]

The power source of the 5e Bard class is vague.

Only in the sidebox about the Weave, does the Bard get grouped with other classes that are "commonly" called arcane.

But this is in contrast to divine, that also lumps in Ranger. Divine includes gods, nature, oaths, and so on.

The bifurcation seems to only be a convenient generalization. It splits between sacred magic and secular magic. But actually there are a "variety of ways" to access the Weave, more than just two. This "common" oversimplification with regard to the Weave, omits discussions about psionic, primal, and other varieties of accessing the Weave.

The 5e Bard class description describes its own power source as the "words of creation". Both bards and the divine are using this same power source. "Words and music are ... vocalizations with power all their own."

Spellcasting: "You ... reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music." These kinds of descriptions that harmonize the wishes of the mind with fabric of the universe, connote what elsewhere is called Psionics.

The point is, in 5e, the power sources are vague. Any specific 5e setting has flexibility to assign whatever power sources make sense in that setting.

 

[Minigiant]

The Darksun setting can easily list a minimal number of classes and subclasses that are suitable for "classic" Darksun. Then go into narrative detail for how these subclasses fit within the setting. Then tell the DM to do whatever they want with regard to the other classes.

I can't see an official Dark Sun book getting away with "Go buy Tasha's" just to make sense.

 

[Steampunkette]

4e had them deal with preserving/defiling and made Athasian Minstrel a theme anyone could take. Since they already marked the Whisperer subclass as intended for Dark Sun I don't think they will try to dig the full caster out if the Bard just for a subclass.

Oh, probably.

Just kinda weird to have 'em there, to me.

Still would like to see a Bardic Rogue Subclass. Dave the DM made one that gets a couple performances and a little poison! I think it's quite nice, really.

 

[Yaarel]

I can't see an official Dark Sun book getting away with "Go buy Tasha's" just to make sense.

Perhaps the Darksun setting will only describe those few subclasses that are directly representative of "classic" Darksun. Maybe even as a stand-alone product.

In addition, there might be vague suggestions for how DMs might want to flavor other subclasses, including ones in Xanathars and Tashas, if the DMs are interested in expanding beyond the classics. But there will be no detailed discussions about them, and the DMs will be on their own.