D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[Maxperson]

The power source of the 5e Bard class is vague.

Only in the sidebox about the Weave, does the Bard get grouped with other classes that are "commonly" called arcane.

But this is in contrast to divine, that also lumps in Ranger. Divine includes gods, nature, oaths, and so on.

The bifurcation seems to only be a convenient generalization. It splits between sacred magic and secular magic. But actually there are a "variety of ways" to access the Weave, more than just two. This "common" oversimplification with regard to the Weave, omits discussions about psionic, primal, and other varieties of accessing the Weave.

Arcane being the term associated with Wizardly magic and those other classes that access it in a variety of ways has long been established. It has been that way for most of the lifespan of D&D. That's not vague, it's just how TSR and WotC have decided it should be. The other side of that coin is divine magic, which includes nature and godly magic. Oaths are a subset of godly magic, as the vast majority of Paladins derive their power from the gods. Primal, a construct of 4e, seems like it would be a similar subset of nature and doesn't really need its own source name.

The one that is different is psionics. That is a third way to access power and should have its own power source.

The 5e Bard class description describes its own power source as the "words of creation". Both bards and the divine are using this same power source. "Words and music are ... vocalizations with power all their own."

Spellcasting: "You ... reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music." These kinds of descriptions that harmonize the wishes of the mind with fabric of the universe, connote what elsewhere is called Psionics.

The point is, in 5e, the power sources are vague. Any specific 5e setting has flexibility to assign whatever power sources make sense in that setting.

Those things don't talk about the power source, though. Those talk about how the Bard accesses the power source. Words of creation could be interpreted as divine. Or it could be interpreted as a type of wizardly magic or arcane. Unlike most other arcane casters, Bards do use cure spells, so I've always pictured them as having a bit of divine magic available. That fits into their schtick as jacks of all trades. Reshaping reality through music, though, is just a method of accessing the weave and doesn't warrant a new power source. Overall they are an arcane class with in my opinion, some dabbling into the divine. I don't see anything really psionic, but can see the logic in moving some of their abilities that way. If they dabble into the divine, why not into the psionic?

 

[Maxperson]

I can't see an official Dark Sun book getting away with "Go buy Tasha's" just to make sense.

They'd reprint appropriate subclasses in the Dark Sun book, just like you find Bladesingers and others in multiple books.

 

[Minigiant]

Perhaps the Darksun setting will only describe those few subclasses that are directly representative of "classic" Darksun. Maybe even as a stand-alone product.

In addition, there might be vague suggestions for how DMs might want to flavor other subclasses, including ones in Xanathars and Tashas, if the DMs are interested in expanding beyond the classics. But there will be no detailed discussions about them, and the DMs will be on their own.

Yeah. They'd never get away with that.

The main problem is few have explained how the lore of "modern" Dark Sun would look. Those who say 5e has everything ignore that they would have to rewrite all the fluff and create a generic Sandstorm book.

"There's still orcs"
"Rajaat was okay with that?"
"What?"
"Rajaat created 15 champions to exterminate most non-human non-halflings. Only a few failed."
"Yeah. This version of Rajaat isn't genocidal."
"So how'd the desert form?"
"What?"
"The purges from this arcanists is why Athas is mostly desert. That's why no one likes arcanists."

 

[Yaarel]

By the way, I am enjoying the psionic flavor where:
• The mind is nonmagical
• The magical Weave is psychosensitive

The Weave itself is an "interface" between "raw magic" and spellcasters. It is impossible to access raw magic accept by means of this interface. The spellcaster "plucks" (manipulates) the Weave to create a magical effect.

Psionics appears to engage the Weave directly by means of thoughts, possibly by using words and chanting to articulate and focus their thoughts. In this way, the nonmagical mind creates magical effects.

Psionics can appear on both sides of the "common" arcane-versus-divine generalization. The Bard and the immortals access the Weave directly by means of words to create reality magically. The Paladin oath is a kind of sanctification of the will of the mind.

I view Psionics and Primal to be the same thing. Psionics is the most ancient and primordial form magic, where a mind manipulates the weave directly. The only difference is, Psionics focuses on humanoid minds, while Primal also includes the minds of rocks and trees. Rocks and trees have nonhumanoid minds, but they still have a kind of mind.

I view the Wizard as a kind of technology that manipulates the Weave that is inherent within objects and other spell components. So manipulating the components channels the directions that the Weave flows. The Sorcerer manipulates the Weave inherent within ones own magically infused body and blood. The Aberrant Mind is a body with an aberrant heritage. Warlocks and Clerics often partner up with other beings who have mastered the Weave.

 

[Minigiant]

They'd reprint appropriate subclasses in the Dark Sun book, just like you find Bladesingers and others in multiple books.

So they'd be willing to produce a setting book with more than 3 subclasses?

 

[Maxperson]

So they'd be willing to produce a setting book with more than 3 subclasses?

I don't see why not. It's not as if three is some sort of magic number.

 

[Yaarel]

So they'd be willing to produce a setting book with more than 3 subclasses?

How could they not?

• The Darksun Cleric domains are quite specific.
• The Wizard colleges whether Preserver or Defiler are unique.
• The social role of a Druid is specific, as mediators on behalf of an animistic local feature of nature.
• If Templars are Paladins, or Eldritch Knights, or Warlocks, or something else, that needs to be detailed narratively and mechanically.
• Psions exist nowhere else.
• The Rogue that is a "Minstrel" requires clarification.

This is the minimum! And it seems already its own stand-alone product.

 

[Minigiant]

I don't see why not. It's not as if three is some sort of magic number.

They haven't before. Most of their setting book have 2-3 subclasses.

Dark Sun needs 3 reprints and at least 3 new subclasses. Preferably 5 new subclasses.

 

[Maxperson]

They haven't before. Most of their setting book have 2-3 subclasses.

Dark Sun needs 3 reprints and at least 3 new subclasses. Preferably 5 new subclasses.

"They haven't before" isn't really a good argument for them not doing it. There's lots of things that they haven't done before. We've seen the first magic the gathering setting. We've seen the first WotC setting created by a fan and made official. They made Dark Lords unkillable for the first time. There's no reason to think that they won't do what is needed to make a Dark Sun campaign setting..........................assuming they make it at all.

 

[Rikka66]

How could they not?

• The Darksun Cleric domains are quite specific.
• The Wizard colleges whether Preserver or Defiler are unique.
• The social role of a Druid is specific, as mediators on behalf of an animistic local feature of nature.
• If Templars are Paladins, or Eldritch Knights, or something else, that needs to be detailed narratively and mechanically.
• Psions exist nowhere else.
• The Rogue that is a "Minstrel" requires clarification.

This is the minimum! And it seems already its own stand-alone product.

-Cleric is an issue. Unless they cut it I could see them running Light as fire and maybe tempest as air, but that still leaves two more. Maybe a one-size fits all approach.
-I'm betting on preserving/defiling being a system that overlays all arcane casters, so no wizard subclasses.
-You don't need a subclass for that, but there is room there for sure.
-Templars are open-ended. They might repeat 4e with a Templar background and sorcerer king warlock pact. If they don't ban paladins this is likely where they get a new oath.
-Well that's most of the thread there.
-Probably a background, and I don't think they'll do a subclass, but there's a possibility. Maybe a reprint of the Whisperer Bard.