D&D 5E 5e isn't a Golden Age of D&D Lorewise, it's Silver at best.

[Ruin Explorer]

Then don't buy it.

That's what I'm saying lol.

My point is, I was a reliable buyer of pretty much every setting-book WotC put out. Yes I mindlessly bought setting books. But WotC have finally managed to create a situation where even I, Mr Setting Book, is going "Good god WotC, what is wrong with you?!", by ratcheting down the page counts whilst ratcheting up the prices.

I mean, it's nice to see you use a rational argument here, because the price ones you've been making rely on fiction, and are thus very bad losing arguments for you to make.

 

[Parmandur]

How about, why is 192-pages now $70 dollars instead of 50?

Inflation and global logistics issues.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't think the conversation is about why WotC is doing it, but the conversation is about how it isn't really all that ethical. You keep trying to turn this into a conversation about facts, when instead its a discussion about how much the product should be worth.

The main ethical considerations in pricing are paying all parties involved sufficiently and maximizing shareholders value. Get those two down, and the ethics are square. WotC prints all their books in the United States (which means they arenutilizing as much direct worker exploitation as they would if they outsourced printing), and pay contractors well. And shareholders are fine. Making a luxury item cheaper can, in fact, be unethical if accomplished through nefarious means.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Price per page, or quality? Because on the latter count I'm somewhat in sympathy.


Actually, yes I am - because the point at which WotC increased the prices for 5e also happens to coincide with the game exploding in popularity. I'd tend not to argue that the price rise caused the surge (although stranger things have happened), but it clearly didn't hurt.

We've seen a ratcheting up of price-per-page at the same time quality has either remained constant or decreased, I'd suggest. What we definitely haven't seen is increased quality. You might make an argument with 4E, for example, that a lot of later books were in fact, better-written than earlier books (you could also argue the opposite, but it's possible). But I can't see any way to make that argument with 5E. Perhaps that speaks well of 5E in that most early books were good (ignoring adventures, but they were always bad and have been since 3E in general), but certainly we're not getting a better deal quality-wise.

Re: price-rise, WotC didn't raise the prices on the books the newer players are likely to primarily be buying, I note, they raised the prices on stuff that grogs, fans, and collectors are likely to be buying, together with a small percentage of the newer players. So I think that's interesting.

What the pricing is on the 2024 editions of the PHB/DMG/MM will be absolutely fascinating and controversial whatever direction they go in.

Moving on from boring arguments about Overpricedjammer, what are people's predictions for the page counts and prices on the 2024 "big three"?

My guess is $69.99 for each, but a boxed set that reduces that to $199.99, and Amazon to reduce further from there. I also predict people will be super-annoyed about the fact that most of the material will not be new, and a lot of the updates will be either minor or unwanted, and the old "big three" will go out of print.

Another interesting point is art - will the "big three" have all-new art? My prediction is that the art will be all-new TO THOSE BOOKS but will include new art and re-used art from other 5E D&D books and from MtG (which is fine), but not art from the previous editions of the same books. If it's truly all-new I'll be impressed.

 

[Azzy]

Yes, it's how the world works.

Only because the masses are complacent.

 

[delericho]

Inflation and global logistics issues.

The format too. Three softcover and a box means three print runs, three lots of binding, and other costs. The equivalent hardcover would be cheaper to produce.

 

[Parmandur]

Only because the masses are complacent.

Yes, it is the way the world works because it is the way that the world works, I agree.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The format too. Three softcover and a box means three print runs, three lots of binding, and other costs. The equivalent hardcover would be cheaper to produce.

Massively so, one would think. I'd love to see the spreadsheets of costs there. I bet making all three 64 pages is a saving on making different-length ones though, even with different content.

 

[Parmandur]

The format too. Three softcover and a box means three print runs, three lots of binding, and other costs. The equivalent hardcover would be cheaper to produce.

I suspect theybare changing up the format because they have to change the prices, and they wanted to make people.feel they were getting something different.

 

[Shardstone]

The main ethical considerations in pricing are paying all parties involved sufficiently and maximizing shareholders value. Get those two down, and the ethics are square. WotC prints all their books in the United States (which means they arenutilizing as much direct worker exploitation as they would if they outsourced printing), and pay contractors well. And shareholders are fine. Making a luxury item cheaper can, in fact, be unethical if accomplished through nefarious means.

Haha, we are having two different convos here. Shareholders are not anywhere in my paradigm of ethical concerns or not.