5E magic alternatives

[Arnwolf]

This is not meant as a criticism of the 5E magic system. If you love it then great. If it is balanced for you great. But I am asking if there is anyone that has houseruled their own variant more like 2E or 3.x. I really don't like the concentration system, though I do enjoy Bounded Accuracy. The reduction in spell slots really isn't a problem either, that really doesn't kick in until 10+ level. But I really detest the concentration mechanic and spell damage at high levels, really no problem with spell damage say below 9th to 10th level. Has anyone experimented with a more traditional D&D magic system with this new edition and found something that worked well for them.

Again if you like 5E magic system great. Please don't start with negative posts about how this is a bad idea please. I would really like proactive posts.

 

[dave2008]

There was a thread similar to this over at the WotC forums. Regarding concentration, the general thought was that if you don't like it then don't use it. That's is, just ignore it, not a big deal at all.

Regarding damage , what is your issue. Personally I would just change it to what you want, not a big deal.

Obviously these are both balancing factors in 5e, if you care about that sort of thing, so you may need to make adjustments elsewhere. However most people who are interested in getting rid of concentration aren't concerned about that

 

[TheCosmicKid]

When you talk about spell damage, are you referring to automatic spell scaling? If so, I might recommend starting out by having all spells be cast as if they were in your highest-level spell slot. Sort of like how warlocks work. But that would actually result in a lot more damage than you get in 3E. In fact, a 5E fireball starts out from the very beginning pretty close to a 3E fireball's maximum. So maybe you also want to scale starting damage back a bit.

 

[Arnwolf]

I really don't mind it say below 10th level. I really think the damage for most spells like fireball should have been 2d6 per level. But that's just me. I love the bounded accuracy and the way many spells work. I like how absorb elements and protection from energy is resistance. I like the advantage and disadvantage system. But I think some spells like polymorph and shapechange the way they are written in this edition do not work well without the concentration mechanic. I was just wondering what people who do not use the concentration mechanic, but really like the other things about this edition. I would really like to know what people have done with magic that do not like the concentration mechanic. If you use the concentration mechanic then this thread is really not for you. Thank you.

 

[Li Shenron]

But I really detest the concentration mechanic

Do you want to have an alternative to concentration, or do you just want to have no concentration mechanics?

There are actually 2 parts of the concentration rules, in fact at some point Mearls mentioned they thought about calling them differently (concentration VS focus) so it's good to point out if you want to remove both or not.

Part #1 is about not being able to cast another concentration spell unless you dismiss the previous concentration spell.

Part #2 is about damage and simili having a chance to make you lose a spell you are concentrating on.

My guess is that you don't like Part #1. Notice that this was even worse in 3e, where in addition to not being able to maintain 2 concentration spells simultaneously, you had to use your standard action to keep concentrating, so you also couldn't attack or cast any other spell without losing the first.

Some options for what you can do to all spells currently requiring concentration:

- ignore concentration completely: this is the most radical yet simple option, and it might work fine... my guess is that only if you have a PC that casts a lot of 'buffs' on the same friend there would be a problem, but it's very possible that none of your players will start exploiting this tactic

- spells previously requiring concentration now just don't stack on the same target: you can cast another concentration spell on a different target, but not on the same (either the previous or the new spell will not work) -> this prevents stacking buffs, but not buffing multiple friends

- nerf (some or all) concentration spells one-by-one and remove the need for concentration from each of them -> requires a lot of work

 

[dave2008]

- spells previously requiring concentration now just don't stack on the same target: you can cast another concentration spell on a different target, but not on the same (either the previous or the new spell will not work) -> this prevents stacking buffs, but not buffing multiple friends

That seems to be a very reasonable solution. It makes sense it is a cast and forgot spell.

 

[Arnwolf]

Don't want it all together. I pretty much ignore the mechanic in one game I play, in the other it is btb, and not a bad mechanic at all for those who like that style. I pretty much want it like in pre 4.0. I don't want to lose a spell currently in effect because of taking damage. I do like spells being disrupted during casting time. There are only a few spells that pose a problem and that is the whole polymorph thing. I think those spells as written are really for the 5E mechanic. I really see very little need for the mechanic the way bounded accuracy, resistances, limited spell slots, advantage/disadvantage, and the general way spells stack anyway. Not really concerned with a spellcaster being overly powerful for an encounter because he will just burn through his spell slots too fast and be hurt in future encounters. I was just curious if anyone has done this and dealth with any problems through spell alterations.

 

[Li Shenron]

Don't want it all together. I pretty much ignore the mechanic in one game I play, in the other it is btb, and not a bad mechanic at all for those who like that style. I pretty much want it like in pre 4.0.

You mean pre 3.0? As I mentioned before, in 3.0 you did have concentration rules, and they were even harsher than in 5e.

I don't want to lose a spell currently in effect because of taking damage. I do like spells being disrupted during casting time.

If you ignore concentration rules you eliminate the former, but as for the latter (disruption while casting) there currently isn't much possibility in 5e, because there is no OA provoked by casting. So I guess the only case is someone readying an attack against casters, and I'm not even sure at the moment if this disrupts the spell (my players rarely use the Ready action, so I have not yet learned its rules well). But you can definitely rule that it does.

There are only a few spells that pose a problem and that is the whole polymorph thing. I think those spells as written are really for the 5E mechanic.

This sounds good, you then only need to work on those few spells

Not really concerned with a spellcaster being overly powerful for an encounter because he will just burn through his spell slots too fast and be hurt in future encounters. I was just curious if anyone has done this and dealth with any problems through spell alterations.

Unfortunately I haven't done it, I'm just speaking purely speculatively here.

 

[Arnwolf]

I really have no problem with 3.x concentration, it is a completely different animal than 5E. It really makes sense to me to draw an AOO for casting a spell next to an adjacent enemy and losing the spell if you take damage. But generally I am looking at BECMI-2.0 but very open to anything 3.x. I think basically my dream game is a Blend of PF and 5E. I think PF has very cool classes like the Alchemist, Witch, Magus, and interesting wizard specialists (though I like some in 5E too). I was just wondering if anyone was playing 5E without the concentration mechanic, and was curious how they had to tweak certain spells around.

I think many of my problems will be solved as new spells are created that allow the wizard to do useful things. I could be wrong on this. 5E has a very good magic system, just not quite want I like. Very good use of reaction spells.

 

[Dragonsbane]

I have casters above 9th level able to concentrate on 2 spells, and above 18th able to concentrate on 3. As a DM, it makes me happy since many times the enemies can concentrate on one more spell than the players We also don't have a readied spell break concentration, which was kinda annoying.

No game-breaking effect, although casters are slightly more powerful at high levels with certain combos.