D&D 5E 5e Magic

Andor

First Post
I've been persuing the Magic section of the basic rules and some thoughts occur to me.

Concentration is a commonly used mechanic, although it's less limiting than in any previous edition of D&D. Basically you can't cast another spell that requires concentration and you don't want to get hit. Movement and combat are fine. It's used as a gating mechanism to control how much nifty stuff you can do at once. Probably these limits will fade with the coming of the splat books.

They seem to have reduced the quadratic wizard problem by giving spells flat damages with increases paid for by consuming higher level spell slots. Seems like it will work although I fully expect splat books to eventually reintroduce (lvl X d6) spells.

Spell balance seems ... off. Compare guidling bolt with magic missile. Not neccesarily a bad thing, I think balance as the holy grail has become a major hobgoblin in RPG design and needs to die a gruesome death. Which is not to say that balance doesn't matter at all, just that it's not sacred.

Magical Healing seems fairly limited, even compared to 2e, which is compensated for by the generous resting healing.

Commercial magic seems to be limited. IE. Wall of Iron, Shape earth and stone. Spells that would reshape commerce seem to be gone. Even fly is gimped.

OTOH "Detect plot" spells like find the path and divination are well supplied.

Arcane foci serve as variant spell component pouches, seems like purely a nice bit of flavor.

Wizard spell book rules are much less onerous than they have been previously. Most GMs that I played with always ignored them before, maybe they'll see some use now.

I don't see any animate dead type spells. Moved to NPC realm or just not in the basic spell list?

On that note there is an interesting bit of cosmology tucked away in the "Speak with dead" spell.
This spell doesn't return the creatures soul to it's body, only it's animating spirit.Thus, the corpse can't learn new information, doesn't comprehend anything that happened since it died, and can't speculate about future events.
So by implication all (sentient?) beings have a soul and an animating spirit. The soul is responsible for learning, comprehension and thought, the animating spirit does movement and either does memory or holds a copy of memory. It reminds me a bit of the chinese hun and po souls idea.
 

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Concentration is a commonly used mechanic, although it's less limiting than in any previous edition of D&D. Basically you can't cast another spell that requires concentration and you don't want to get hit. Movement and combat are fine. It's used as a gating mechanism to control how much nifty stuff you can do at once. Probably these limits will fade with the coming of the splat books.

They seem to have reduced the quadratic wizard problem by giving spells flat damages with increases paid for by consuming higher level spell slots. Seems like it will work although I fully expect splat books to eventually reintroduce (lvl X d6) spells.
Any splat book that does that needs to be slapped upside the spine.

Spell balance seems ... off. Compare guidling bolt with magic missile. Not neccesarily a bad thing, I think balance as the holy grail has become a major hobgoblin in RPG design and needs to die a gruesome death. Which is not to say that balance doesn't matter at all, just that it's not sacred.
Not seeing the issue. Guiding bolt does 1 extra die of damage and grants advantage to one attack, while magic missile auto-hits and can be split among multiple targets. I'd say that's a pretty good job of balance, honestly.

Magical Healing seems fairly limited, even compared to 2e, which is compensated for by the generous resting healing.
Yea, I agree.

Commercial magic seems to be limited. IE. Wall of Iron, Shape earth and stone. Spells that would reshape commerce seem to be gone. Even fly is gimped.
Have to see the PHB to be sure, but it seems so.

On that note there is an interesting bit of cosmology tucked away in the "Speak with dead" spell.
This spell doesn't return the creatures soul to it's body, only it's animating spirit.Thus, the corpse can't learn new information, doesn't comprehend anything that happened since it died, and can't speculate about future events.
So by implication all (sentient?) beings have a soul and an animating spirit. The soul is responsible for learning, comprehension and thought, the animating spirit does movement and either does memory or holds a copy of memory. It reminds me a bit of the chinese hun and po souls idea.
Looks like they borrowed from 4e, with its body/animus/soul division.
 

In comparing Guiding Bolt to Magic Missile, I don’t really see a problem.

GB deals 4d6 damage to one creature if you hit. This means a chance of a miss (wasted spell) but also chance of a crit. Also has a “bonus” of one time advantage.

MM deals 1d4+1 damage to one or more creatures with no chance of missing.

While GB seems a touch better, play style is going to ultimately be the determiner. I have gamers who will always choose GB for the extra oomph, while others will always chose MM to ensure they always get “juice” from their spell slots.
 

I think the 5B magic system and spells is a marked improvement over 3X and Pathfinder, though I'm not completely happy with cantrips and certain spells (gate). I also want more mundane counters to magic and more built in limitations to prevent magic primacy. But the lack of innate spell scaling and forcing casters to choose what spell to concentrate on is a massive help in preventing the Quadratic Caster problem. Having concentration potentially end on damage makes casters a natural target AND makes them squishier as defensive buffs are more of a crapshoot. This gives casters a legitimate weakness and encourages teamwork with other character classes to distract the enemy, block access to the wizard, and otherwise suppress enemy attacks on the casters. That's got to be a good thing.

You didn't mention the biggest change: the non-Vancian prep & slot system. It gives more flexibility countered by fewer overall slots per day. It's a massive change from early editions, but I think a necessary one. 3X casters got so many slots that the limitation became a joke in anything other than the most grindy of adventures and, at the same time, many wizard players hated the anxiety of choosing spell lists each day. Also, this new system is more lenient to refluffing. It can ably serve as a spell point system or almost anything else you need without the shadow of Vancian magic. I haven't used the system as of yet, so I don't know if the implementation is good throughout all levels of play.

Wall of stone has a permanent duration if you concentrate on it for 10 minutes so you can still get some cheap building done on your castle.

Splatbooks and additional content IS a worry, as always. I'm hoping their concept of a "living ruleset" also includes carefully vetting and playtesting content before release. I'm also hoping they have an in-house Content Creation Bible listing balance parameters and danger areas. "Thou shalt not create something that allows free concentration or double concentration, or ignores concentration" or "Thou shalt not create a spell whose effects scale naturally with level, unless said spell is a cantrip and is balanced in effect with other cantrips" or "Thou shall not create a spell with a range of 75ft. Pick 60ft or 120ft in keeping with the nature of the spell." I don't worry so much about the original design team knowing and understanding these factors, I worry about Dragon Magazine writers and editors not properly vetting content on a hectic monthly publication schedule.

I'm guardedly optimistic, as usual.
 

In comparing Guiding Bolt to Magic Missile, I don’t really see a problem.

GB deals 4d6 damage to one creature if you hit. This means a chance of a miss (wasted spell) but also chance of a crit. Also has a “bonus” of one time advantage.

MM deals 1d4+1 damage to one or more creatures with no chance of missing.

While GB seems a touch better, play style is going to ultimately be the determiner. I have gamers who will always choose GB for the extra oomph, while others will always chose MM to ensure they always get “juice” from their spell slots.
Remember it's 3d4+3, not 1d4+1. Three darts at 1st level, not 1.
 

Looks like they borrowed from 4e, with its body/animus/soul division.

I didn't know 4e formalized that. Interesting. Well I'm all for retaining value from 4e.

You didn't mention the biggest change: the non-Vancian prep & slot system. It gives more flexibility countered by fewer overall slots per day. It's a massive change from early editions, but I think a necessary one. 3X casters got so many slots that the limitation became a joke in anything other than the most grindy of adventures and, at the same time, many wizard players hated the anxiety of choosing spell lists each day. Also, this new system is more lenient to refluffing. It can ably serve as a spell point system or almost anything else you need without the shadow of Vancian magic. I haven't used the system as of yet, so I don't know if the implementation is good throughout all levels of play.

This is similar to the system Monte Cook used in Arcana Unearthed. Although he erased the arcane/divine split, ignored spell books, and allowed funky games with spell slots. He also had scaling spells so the quadratic wizard problem was there in full. :p
 

On the topic of the Magic system, I'm finding that new players are having difficulty parsing the "prepped spells" vs "spell slots". It hard to explain to someone totally new to this kinda thing.

also, MM is auto-hit 3d4+3 that can be spread out if necessary...
 

Personally I think they changed too many variables for me to have an opinion on spellcasters' balance before I had played 5e for long enough.
 



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