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5E 5e Mythic Monster Updates

SkidAce

Hero
Supporter
WotC have confirmed this is the "full" Tiamat.


Why is that actually? I mean, none of the D&D lore, no matter the edition supports it, and yet you always make Tiamat one of the most powerful - if not the most powerful - of your designs. So just wondering.

(And I've said before - I way prefer her as the Ur-dragon, instead of a goddess.)
Because Tiamat is the Mother of Monsters, the spawner of Primordials, the goddess of the cosmic sea from whence all things come, she is the terrible, the beautiful..

Wikipedia said:
She is the symbol of the chaos of primordial creation. She is referred to as a woman,[4] and described as the glistening one.[5] It is suggested that there are two parts to the Tiamat mythos, the first in which Tiamat is a creator goddess, through a sacred marriage between salt and fresh water, peacefully creating the cosmos through successive generations. In the second Chaoskampf Tiamat is considered the monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos.[6] Some sources identify her with images of a sea serpent or dragon.[7]
 

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For Tiamat; what if each round 1d4-1 breath weapons recharge (1d4 after mythic) Then the "ur breath" requires a round or two of recovery.

A bit of a callback to other dragons breath refresh.

It might also open up budget for an on-turn "bite and breathe", which is a move I cannot believe she doesn't have.
 

dave2008

Legend
For Tiamat; what if each round 1d4-1 breath weapons recharge (1d4 after mythic) Then the "ur breath" requires a round or two of recovery.

A bit of a callback to other dragons breath refresh.
Personally I like that she doesn't need to recover, she just needs to spend 2 legendary actions. Though it would be more 5e to give her a recharge 5-6 for each breath weapon, which I have done before as well.
It might also open up budget for an on-turn "bite and breathe", which is a move I cannot believe she doesn't have.
best way to do that would be to add a grapple option to the bite attack. I can do that.
 

dave2008

Legend
It might also open up budget for an on-turn "bite and breathe", which is a move I cannot believe she doesn't have.
OK, I gave Tiamat a grapple option with her bite attack. That allows her to breath on a grappled target and they have disadvantage on their save. I could do more, but I think that is good for now.

What is deadly is that she can bite and breath on the target in the same round.
 

Personally I like that she doesn't need to recover, she just needs to spend 2 legendary actions. Though it would be more 5e to give her a recharge 5-6 for each breath weapon, which I have done before as well.
Sure, I was just aiming for less bookkeeping not more.

The point of legendary actions is to spread tgreat over the round and not clump it up.

The 5 breath, twice in a row, right after mythic breaks that point.

Not only is it mega threat, it is also trivial to focus on one person. Unless the PCs are effectively immune to all of her breath weapons, 1+ PCs die for 2 rounds post-mythic. Even death ward doesn't work well.

A recharge makes that mega blast something with a delay between uses.
 

dave2008

Legend
Sure, I was just aiming for less bookkeeping not more.

The point of legendary actions is to spread tgreat over the round and not clump it up.

The 5 breath, twice in a row, right after mythic breaks that point.

Not only is it mega threat, it is also trivial to focus on one person. Unless the PCs are effectively immune to all of her breath weapons, 1+ PCs die for 2 rounds post-mythic. Even death ward doesn't work well.

A recharge makes that mega blast something with a delay between uses.
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the typical breathweapons. I'm already planning on revising Chromatic Breath to be more deadly, but only usable 1/short rest.

EDIT: Actually I may take an idea from her 4e incarnation
 

dave2008

Legend
OK, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about the typical breathweapons. I'm already planning on revising Chromatic Breath to be more deadly, but only usable 1/short rest.

EDIT: Actually I may take an idea from her 4e incarnation
OK @NotAYakk, I revised her Chromatic Breath. Let me know what you think.
 

dave2008

Legend
I have added the Gigante to the Mythic Updates (under giants). This is a preview of a draft (still need to crunch numbers and edit) of one of the monsters in my upcoming Zine: Ascension, the Codex of Exalted. It is based on the Greek-myth version of the serpent-footed giants released by Gaia to punish the gods.

PS, this is one its outer-planes form, it true form on the Prime is much more powerful ;)
 

OK @NotAYakk, I revised her Chromatic Breath. Let me know what you think.
Nice.

It still reads a bit like a "you must be this tall to ride" damage burst; 360 damage on one initiative count. We must presume resitance (or the players are doomed) so "only" 180.

The budget per legendary action/action is pretty flat, with that being a big exception.

What are you doing for damage budgets, the usual "first 3 rounds" damage output? I guess you assume resistance to everything.
 

dave2008

Legend
Nice.

It still reads a bit like a "you must be this tall to ride" damage burst; 360 damage on one initiative count. We must presume resitance (or the players are doomed) so "only" 180.
Well I would think you would have to be a certain height to challenge Tiamat! Also, each player within the line is only struck by 2 breathweapons (possibly three).

What are you doing for damage budgets, the usual "first 3 rounds" damage output? I guess you assume resistance to everything.
Yes, but I haven't check the damage budgets yet and I am still messing around with them.
 

Well I would think you would have to be a certain height to challenge Tiamat! Also, each player within the line is only struck by 2 breathweapons (possibly three).
ah, last version I had read had the recharge mechanic, but not the 1d6 table.

If you need to tweak it upwards a tad, have fire always hit, and roll 2d4.

Or you could infinite explode; the reroll dupes makes the all 5 case more likely. But still low.

6: Roll twice more. If you are already rolling 5 times, all breaths hit the target.

Then again, "crowding out" could lead to 5 being more common than one would like.

6: Fire breath, plus roll 1d4 for another breath.

You could also allow for double damage on dupes, which could be fun.

Or:

Roll 2d4:
1: Cold
2: Lightning
3: Poison
4: Acid

If you roll doubles, you get that head + double damage fire that treats immunity as resistance.

(This is 1/4 chance of the mega fire).
 
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Thirteenspades

Villager
So is this mythic Tarrasque equal to two CR 30 normal tarasques like Tiamat? And it is a mythic template-applied to a normal tarrasque? Also, why use normal CRs instead of increasing the CR past 30? And how exactly does the mythic template work?
 

So is this mythic Tarrasque equal to two CR 30 normal tarasques like Tiamat? And it is a mythic template-applied to a normal tarrasque? Also, why use normal CRs instead of increasing the CR past 30? And how exactly does the mythic template work?
So the Mythic template is from Theros.

Monsters with Mythic are normal (usually legendary) monsters until you reduce them to 0 HP. When you reduce them to 0 HP, they remove all conditions, regain their legendary resists, regain a whole pile of HP, and gain access to their Mythic actions.

These mythic actions can be normal, reactions, bonus or legendary actions.

The new Mythic monster is designed to also be a CR X encounter (roughly as hard as the first one you fought). So encounter-building wise, you fight a CR X monster, then another CR X monster right afterwards.

This way you can have a "non-Mythic" fight with a monster, or you can have a "Mythic" fight where the monster "transforms" half way through.

A problem with exceeding CR 30 is you start having "single shot kill HP damage" levels of damage and the fight changes phases from "can you fight this without ever letting the monster connect" instead of "can you fight this".

A double-length fight, meanwhile, keeps up the reasonable per-round threat of a CR 30 monster, and just makes it take longer.
 

dave2008

Legend
So is this mythic Tarrasque equal to two CR 30 normal tarasques like Tiamat? And it is a mythic template-applied to a normal tarrasque? Also, why use normal CRs instead of increasing the CR past 30? And how exactly does the mythic template work?
@NotAYakk answered your question pretty well. However, I will add, to be clear, there is no mythic Tarrasque (except 3PP / homebrew). The only "official" mythic monsters are the three provided in Mythic Odysseys of Theros.
 




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