D&D 5E 5E: Pick Your Poison

[Stormonu]

DM: The arrow penetrates your armor...*rolls dice*...for five points of damage. Please make a save throw.
PLAYER: Oh crap. Um...*roll*...crap, six.
DM: You fall unconscious for...*rolls dice*....eight rounds.
PLAYER: Ouch.

No ability damage, nothing ongoing, no arbitrary immunity, just one simple save against a fixed effect, and we move on.

That's fine and dandy at say, 1st level, but when the 64-hit-point 8th level fighter is down and out for 8 rounds because of one lousy roll, that sucks. I think the disease track is a better way to handle poison side effects (I too, still want poisons that can deal straight damage).

Or perhaps like non-lethal damage, poison damage builds upwards, possibly causing conditional effects as the "poison builds" in one's body.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

[MENTION=3192]howandwhy99[/MENTION] -- I'd prefer my D&D poison not to be androgynous, thanks. Pick one or t' other.

I'm OK with "save versus poison or die".

That said, the CON damage mechanic works pretty well. I think poisons should have different types that apply that damage differently.

- Some poisons should have a single save and a single Con damage application.
- Some poisons should have no save, but inflict recurring CON damage (from per round to per day depending on strength) until cured
- Some poisons should have multiple saves with multiple recurring CON damage events (and the first successful save ends the effect)

 

[ExploderWizard]

I would like for there to be room for a wide variety in poison effects, delivery methods, onset times, and general potency.

There should be some frightning fast acting save or die poisons.

There should be some slower working save or die unless countered poisons.

There should be some poisons that cause various amounts of damage and perhaps might kill depending on the victim.

There should be some poisons that disable, weaken, or otherwise cause detrimental non-damaging effects.

More variety is good because if there are so many possibilities upon discovering that someone has been poisoned then the dread of wondering what the effects will be that much greater.

 

[ren1999]

That is an excellent idea. Let's use realistic poisons and poison effects in 5th edition.

Specifically, what does a rat infection really do. What does various snake venom really do. How fast do they work?

Let's not allow someone to roll a 1d20 and recover on a 10 or greater.

Has anyone given thought to a Cleric's ability to cure a poison? I don't even like my own ideas on this.

I think that Neutralize, Cure and Restore should have some kind of order but I'm not sure how many power slots it will cost.

Cure Ally/healing prayer power/available to cleric level 1/standard at-will action/ranged 1-6 squares/long ranged 7-12 squares, situation modifier-2/targets self or 1 ally/roll wisdom versus the DC of the curse, disease or poison/at class level 1, diagnose and neutralize 1 curse, disease or poison/at class level 2, diagnose and cure it/at class level 3, cure and regenerate 1d8 hit points/During an extended rest, mass cure the party./level-up scale to +1 square, +1 ally, regenerate +1d8 hit points at 11th and 21st level

 

[CleverNickName]

What's not to like about Poison?

I wanna kiss you but your lips are venomous. You're poison.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq4j1LtCdww&ob=av2n"]Poison, Alice Cooper - YouTube[/ame]​

I would have poison work in two stages - per round, and per ten minutes.

I think this is what they tried to do in the third edition, with the Initial and Secondary damage effects. And as much as I love that edition of the game, the poison mechanics have always been a bit too clunky and needlessly complicated.

Maybe I could get on board with this if poison didn't require multiple save throws. Something like "Poison (Ex): Bite, Fort DC 15 partial. Target takes 1d6 points of poison damage, and takes +1 point per hour on a failed save."

I like Save or Die poisons. DCs are set by the potency. If you want to get fancy, you can do the same with onset times.

I like save-or-die poisons too, but I don't want them all the time. I imagine it would make an interesting plot hook for a character to be struck with a magical poison that will slay him unless he finds a cure before sunset. But this would be a plot element, not a game mechanic...if every poison behaved this way, it would quickly become more trouble than it was worth.

Envenoming a weapon is part of the game, but still counts as poison use, so a save is required. I think it only gets one hit per application and applying isn't something quickly and easily performed. I believe there is a shelf life on envenomed weapons too. (Cue the envenoming sheath magic item again )

I never noticed a problem with the "envenomed weapon" thing, honestly. So the thief had a dagger that would add 1d6 points of poison damage to every single hit? Big deal, the fighter had a flaming sword that did the same thing. Poisoned weapons only become a problem when we start mixing them with other exotic effects, like paralysis or sudden death. But if poison just deals straight damage (like acid, fire, cold, sonic, force, and practically every other effect in the game), it's hardly a game-breaker. Some creatures are immune to fire, others are immune to poison, some can only be harmed by silver...

It is well-handled; it's handled abstractly. One of the annoying aspects of D&D 3 is having a host of effects all of which have their own durations and own modifiers to keep track of. Making a host of damage effects that added to that problem would not make the game more enjoyable for me, I think.

Agreed. Combat sequences already take too long to resolve. Multiple effects with multiple durations and save throws would be a step in the wrong direction, IMO.

I would like for there to be room for a wide variety in poison effects, delivery methods, onset times, and general potency.

There should be some frightning fast acting save or die poisons.

There should be some slower working save or die unless countered poisons.

There should be some poisons that cause various amounts of damage and perhaps might kill depending on the victim.

There should be some poisons that disable, weaken, or otherwise cause detrimental non-damaging effects.

More variety is good because if there are so many possibilities upon discovering that someone has been poisoned then the dread of wondering what the effects will be that much greater.

Maybe the answer is to bring back the old Poison Type Table, with a couple dozen different types of poison in it.

Poison Type/Save DC/Effect

Type A / 10 / 1 point of damage
Type B / 11 / 2 points of damage
Type C / 12 / 1d4 points of damage
Type D / 14 / 1d6 points of damage
...
Type H / 12 / 1 point of damage per round until cured
Type I / 14 / 2 points of damage per round until cured
Type J / 16 / 3 points of damage per round until cured
...
Type P / 12 / Target is paralyzed for 1d3 rounds
Type Q / 12 / Target is stunned for 1d3 rounds
Type R / 12 / Target is dazed for 1d4 rounds
Type S / 12 / Target falls unconscious for 1d4 rounds
Type T / 16 / Target is petrified
...
Type V / 20 / Target dies in 1 hour unless cured
Type W / 22 / Target dies in 10 minutes unless cured
Type X / 22 / Target dies in 1 round unless cured

This would allow the DM to literally "pick his poison" when deciding how the poison mechanics should work in his campaign.

 

[grimslade]

I thought ability damage worked well. Shadows doing Str damage. Poison inflicting Con. I can see poisons focusing on different abilities. Spider venom draining Dex until immobilized. But the default of damaging Con seems fair.

I like the thought of the effect happening later on. Adventure focused design makes this a real possibility although poison wielding BBEG will be of the immediate poison damage breed. This makes the 4E disease track a better method. 3saves or 5 saves depending on severity.

Stage 1 envenomation minor damage 1-3 hp damage

Fail Save | Make Save ^
V. l
Stage 2 Primary Reaction Bigger damage die/ Slow/ Dazed

Fail Save |. Make Save ^

Stage 3 Payload. Multiple dice damage/ Paralyisis/ Unconcious


But the saves need to be serious, not auto saves. Not auto fails either but a threat.
Then you could have magical poisons with specific triggers. A poison for wizards that only triggers when they use a divination spell or ritual. A poison for an ill king that triggers when his medicine is administered.

 

[Doombybbr]

There are a variety of ways to handle poison in our favorite game. In this thread, I would like to discuss the many ways that toxins could be handled in the new edition.

My two coppers (coming from the perspective of a 3.5E player):

1. I would like to see poison handled as a type of "energy" damage. Yes, I know that toxins are not a form of energy. Neither is acid, but that doesn't seem to bother the designers very much. When poison strikes a creature or character, it would make my life a whole lot easier if it just scored extra damage, with a save to reduce/avoid it. Ability damage is tedious. Ongoing damage is a bookkeeping nightmare. Fancy effects like sleep and paralysis are best handled elsewhere (sleep and hold person spells, for example.) Just plain and simple damage, please.

2. I would like to see some real (and balanced) rules for poison as equipment. I know that poison is supposed to be a rare and dangerous substance that requires special equipment and training to use safely...so how is that different from magic? If we can brew potions to heal damage, why can't we brew potions to inflict it?

3. Poisoned weapons. You know, I used to roll my eyes when my players asked me for this, thinking that they were just looking for yet another way to over-buff their weapon damage. But then I got to thinking...if the druid can coat her scimitar with fire to deal extra damage, why can't the rogue coat his dagger with poison to do the same thing? If used properly, I think it would be a reasonable (and more plausible) alternative to handing out yet another flaming +1 weapon.

Ideas? Comments? Suggestions? Cries of outrage?

problem is that you don't actually need "specialised equipment", just the poison to put on your blade, however that poison might not last very long as it slowly drips off your sword with every second and every attack, also an arrow can be poisoned, as you would only use it once...

 

[RangerWickett]

The trouble with ability damage is that it forced an on-the-fly retooling of your stats, and that got complicated.

 

[Frostmarrow]

[lyrics]Hello? My name is Susanne Stammer, you remember me don't you? I used to go out with your drummer. I made his life miserable and now I'll start on you... Oh, by the way, you can call me Poison.[/lyrics]

I'd like poison to have a time unit and a percentage chance of hitpoint damage. Like so "every minute 40% chance of 1d6 damage until neutralized" Simple and ruleswise summed up in the same sentence advertising the poison in the first place.

 

[Wiseblood]

I would like to see poisons have a variety of effects.

Death

Damage

Disability (Simple numeric impairment) -X to everything

Slow

Blindness

Paralysis

Sleep

Possibly a combination of more than one effect with a timeline. A save means you have actually avoided the poison. Spit out the poisoned draught, suffered a dry bite, or find your boot got the deadly dose not your foot. If you get poisoned you need to change the narrative so to speak and get the antivenin or curative magic. Not just wait it out and hope for the best. Then again, I think some people might dislike the thought of dying based on one roll so kinder and gentler rules should at least be included.