D&D 5E 5e ranked skill system

[gweinel]

Although the 5e skill systems has certain merits our 3.x gaming group wants more diversity. So, i tried and created a ranked skill system under 5e context. I know that at dmg will be a ranked skill system but until then we will use a homebrew rank skill system.

At 1st lvl.
- You can put ranks in any skill or tool.
- If you take a skill that is not on your class (or other specified origin like the background, class or feat), it uses half the proficiency bonus (rounded down).
- You cannot put more ranks in a skill or tool than your proficiency bonus.
- At 1st lvl you have ranks equal twice the number of your class skills and tools that you have to choose in PH. (Example #1: Barbarian in PH have to choose 2 skills from his 6 class skills. His ranks at 1st lvl is 4. Example #2: Rogue in PH have to choose 4 skills from his 11 class skills and 1 tool. His ranks at 1st lvl is 10). The human gets 2 extra ranks.
- Race features that grants you at 1st lvl proficiency with a skill (like the elven keen senses) grants you +2 with that skill.
- Background skill proficiencies remain as it is (they get the +2 proficiency bonus).


Beyond 1st lvl.
- You can put ranks in your skills or tools every time your proficiency bonus increases.
- You can put ranks in any skill or tool you have already put rank at 1st lvl, however the skills that don’t belong to your class list, background, race or feat cost double.
- The number of the ranks that you put is equal to the number of skills and tools that you have to choose at 1st lvl, plus the number of the race skills, plus the number of background skills and tools, plus the number of the feat skills.
Example: An elf rogue with the criminal background and skilled feat gets 5 ranks from his class (4 skills + 1 tool), plus 4 ranks from background (2 skills + 2 tools) plus 1 rank from his race (1 rank from the bonus perception prof.) plus 3 ranks (from the skilled feat) to a total sum of 13 ranks.
- The characters can't have more ranks than the proficiency bonus in any skill or tool.

Any comment would be really welcomed.

 

[Lalato]

That seems like a lot of ranks. Eventually they will just auto succeed on their checks unless you increase the DCs.

 

[gweinel]

That seems like a lot of ranks. Eventually they will just auto succeed on their checks unless you increase the DCs.

Just added the last sentence which inticates that the ranks cannot exceed the proficiency bonus.

 

[Li Shenron]

This is the same I had in mind all the time and I think/hope also what the designers will put in the DMG. Essentially, you can "spread" your proficiency bonus over more skills than normal.

I would only reword the presentation, because it might be more complicated than needed. How about:

- keep a list of your 'easy-access skills', i.e. skills you would normally be proficient at (from race, class, background, feats)
- when you gain a new skill (typically from feats, or higher level class features), add it to the 'easy-access skills' list
- the proficiency bonus by character level represents your maximum rank in any skill
- at any time, your total number of skill points is equal to the number of skills in your 'easy-access skills' list multiplied by your proficiency bonus

a) so at first level, skill points = 2 x number of easy-access skills
b) every time your proficiency bonus increases, you get as many new skill points as the number of your easy-access skills
c) every time you gain a new skill to add to your list, you also get as many new skill points as your current proficiency bonus

The 'double cost' for other skills means that whenever a character spends skill points on a skill that is not in her easy-access skills list, she will be overall weaker than a regular 5e character. This can be OK if you want to still enforce some niche protection, but you have to keep in mind that already 5e literally allows a character to pick about half of her skills freely (including making up a custom background). So the truth is, you should also consider whether you need this 'double cost' rule at all, or just let every skill bonus cost the same. In such case, there's no need to keep a list of easy-access skills, only to remember how many they would be, to calculate the total skill points.

 

[gweinel]

The 'double cost' for other skills means that whenever a character spends skill points on a skill that is not in her easy-access skills list, she will be overall weaker than a regular 5e character. This can be OK if you want to still enforce some niche protection, but you have to keep in mind that already 5e literally allows a character to pick about half of her skills freely (including making up a custom background). So the truth is, you should also consider whether you need this 'double cost' rule at all, or just let every skill bonus cost the same. In such case, there's no need to keep a list of easy-access skills, only to remember how many they would be, to calculate the total skill points.

Thank you very much for your input.

I don't have problem to allow them to choose any skill they want, and i agree with you about the "spirit" of 5e regarding the skills, but in PH we still have "class skills", which means that WotC wanted, at least in a limited way in comparison with the previous editions, some skills to be relevant with the class. I suppose make the class more thematic.

An option which reduce a bit the micromanagement is to just open the skills and say that if you take a skill that is not on your class (or other specified origin), it uses half the proficiency bonus (rounded down). (As mentioned in the Wizards forums)

 

[Lalato]

Can you give a side by side example of a character built the 5e way... and one built with your system?

Show a 1st level example and a 5th level example. Thanks... I'm not quite understanding the number of points floating around, and a concrete example will help with that. Thanks.

 

[gweinel]

Can you give a side by side example of a character built the 5e way... and one built with your system?

Show a 1st level example and a 5th level example. Thanks... I'm not quite understanding the number of points floating around, and a concrete example will help with that. Thanks.

Sure. Lets take an example of an elf rogue with charlatan backaground.

Standard 5e skill system

1st lvl

Rogue starts with 4 skills and 1 tool from his class, 1 skill from his race (perception) and 2 skills and 2 tools from his background. He has total 7skills and 3 tools. His proficiency bonus to these skills and tools is +2. He chose Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation from his class skill list and got Perception because he is an elf and Deception and Sleight of Hand from his charlatan background. He also got thieves tools from his class and forgery and disguise kit from his background.

His proficient skills and tools are:
class skills
Acrobatics 2+ability modifier
Athletics 2+mod
Insight 2+mod
Intimidation 2+mod
Thieves tools 2+mod
race skill
Perception 2+mod
background skill
Deception 2+mod
Sleight of Hand 2+mod
Forgery kit 2+mod
Disguise kit 2+mod

5th lvl

At this lvl the Rogue would have +3 to his proficient skills and tools.
Acrobatics 3+ability modifier
Athletics 3+mod
Insight 3+mod
Intimidation 3+mod
Thieves tools 3+mod
race skill
Perception 3+mod
background skill
Deception 3+mod
Sleight of Hand 3+mod
Forgery kit 3+mod
Disguise kit 3+mod


Ranked 5e skill system

1stl lvl

His racial and background skills get as in previous example the +2 of his proficiency bonus.
At 1st lvl the rogue would have twice the number of his class skills and tools in ranks. He has 4 skills and 1 tool so his ranks at 1st lvl is 10. The Rogue decides that he wants to be very good at thieves tools and Acrobatics so he put 2 ranks in each. He decides that he wants to spent his 1 rank at athletics, insight, intimidation as in previous example and 1 point to persuation. All these are from his class list. He wants also to have some knowledge of Arcana so he spents his last 2 ranks in it. However these 2 ranks in Arcana (no class skill) count as half the proficiency bonus.

His proficient skills and tools are:
class skills
Acrobatics 2+ability modifier
Athletics 1+mod
Insight 1+mod
Intimidation 1+mod
Persuation 1+mod
Arcana 1+mod (2 ranks but half prof. bonus)
Thieves tools 2+mod
race skill
Perception 2+mod
background skill
Deception 2+mod
Sleight of Hand 2+mod
Forgery kit 2+mod
Disguise kit 2+mod

5th lvl

At 5th lvl his proficiency bonus gets +3. The number of the ranks that the rogue put is equal to the number of skills and tools that you have to choose according to PH at 1st lvl, plus the number of the race skills, plus the number of background skills and tools. So, he has to spend 5 ranks from his class (4skills and 1tool), 1 from his race and 4 from his background (2 skills and 2 tools) to a total of 10 ranks. He decides to invest this time a bit in acrobatics, deception, athletics, persuation, perception, thieves tools and 2 ranks in history history(non class skill) and in stealth.

So his list becomes:
class skills
Acrobatics 3+ability modifier
Athletics 2+mod
Insight 1+mod
Intimidation 1+mod
Persuation 2+mod
Stealth 2+mod
Non class skill
History 1+mod (2 ranks but half prof. bonus)
Arcana 1+mod (2 ranks but half prof. bonus)
Thieves tools 3+mod
race skill
Perception 3+mod
background skill
Deception 3+mod
Sleight of Hand 2+mod
Forgery kit 2+mod
Disguise kit 2+mod

I hope it helps