D&D (2024) 5e spell saves versus 4e spell attacks

[Aldarc]

Ultimately the benefit for D&D is, these eight abilities are roughly equal to each other in power and usefulness.

To balance the abilities is something many D&D players want.

It would be a massive mistake to conflate your personal views with the will of the majority regarding what "ultimately the benefit for D&D is." As I said, there are a number of TTRPG fantasy heartbreakers that already have your 4/8 attributes, but I can't see the Six Attributes of D&D changing in the next twenty years. Find a game that better suits your needs or make your own, but this is a line that WotC will likely not cross in the foreseeable future.

 

[Yaarel]

It would be a massive mistake to conflate your personal views with the will of the majority regarding what "ultimately the benefit for D&D is." As I said, there are a number of TTRPG fantasy heartbreakers that already have your 4/8 attributes, but I can't see the Six Attributes of D&D changing in the next twenty years. Find a game that better suits your needs or make your own, but this is a line that WotC will likely not cross in the foreseeable future.

I have been on the D&D forums since the origins of 4e. MANY players complain about how imbalanced the six abilities are.



Besides, the 2014 DMs Guide already makes new abilities possible, including Honor and Sanity.

To make Perception and Athletics function as ability scores, for the sake of gaming balance and clarity, is helpful. To ensure things format in a way to implement them is helpful.

 

[Aldarc]

I have been on the D&D forums since the origins of 4e. MANY players complain about how imbalanced the six abilities are.

Complaining about the imbalance of ability scores is NOT the same as wanting what you propose or alterting the number of ability scores.

 

[Yaarel]

Complaining about the imbalance of ability scores is NOT the same as wanting what you propose or alterting the number of ability scores.

I did say, the eight abilities solves the problem of imbalanced abilities. There might be other ways.

To be fair, in 20 years with much interest in the matter, I have never seen a proposal that can salvage the six abilities. Even the 4e way of pairing them had issues, albeit is probably one of the better attempts.

Meanwhile, Perception has evolved into a defacto ability and saving throw, during 4e and 5e.

These eight work.

 

[Guest 7034872]

The game has changed a lot over the years, and people's suggestions are a big part of what changed it. Tentatively, I don't favor going to eight stats, but I also don't think it's fair to reject the idea out of hand because it's never been done. Once upon a time, cantrips had never been done, either, yet today I cannot imagine the game without them.

 

[Aldarc]

The game has changed a lot over the years, and people's suggestions are a big part of what changed it. Tentatively, I don't favor going to eight stats, but I also don't think it's fair to reject the idea out of hand because it's never been done. Once upon a time, cantrips had never been done, either, yet today I cannot imagine the game without them.

IMHO, there are various areas of the game that are more flexible for change than others. I don't see the six ability scores changing for D&D, though I could see them switch to modifiers only. I think that six ability scores are more important for the "brand" and its legacy than whether the game uses cantrips or not.

I did say, the eight abilities solves the problem of imbalanced abilities. There might be other ways.

To be fair, in 20 years with much interest in the matter, I have never seen a proposal that can salvage the six abilities. Even the 4e way of pairing them had issues, albeit is probably one of the better attempts.

Meanwhile, Perception has evolved into a defacto ability and saving throw, during 4e and 5e.

These eight work.

Then make a fantasy heartbreaker that proves that they work.

I do recommend checking out Shadow of the Demon Lord or the Shadow of the Weird Wizard playtest to see a game with a similar setup in action.

 

[Yaarel]

IMHO, there are various areas of the game that are more flexible for change than others. I don't see the six ability scores changing for D&D, though I could see them switch to modifiers only. I think that six ability scores are more important for the "brand" and its legacy than whether the game uses cantrips or not.


Then make a fantasy heartbreaker that proves that they work.

I do recommend checking out Shadow of the Demon Lord or the Shadow of the Weird Wizard playtest to see a game with a similar setup in action.

Please stop telling forumers to stop playing D&D.

No single person decides what D&D is. It is an ongoing conversation.

 

[Aldarc]

Please stop telling me to stop playing D&D. Because. Your "advice" is wrong.

You can play D&D all you want to, but if having 4/8 ability scores is really that important to you, then I would advise playing something else or making your own heartbreaker because I don't see D&D changing on that war front any time soon. One D&D certainly will not.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Sorry, but I have to agree with Yaarel on this one: it is not for any of us to decide which features of D&D will or will not change; it is not our intellectual property. And if someone wants to house-rule, "Two TOTALLY SWEET new stats, everybody!," surely that's none of my business, right? So if some fine day WotC eventually comes to agree that those stats are sweet, well, it's their property and their call to make.

The only legitimate gate-keepers here are the owners of the intellectual property.

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[kigmatzomat]

I don't see the six ability scores changing for D&D, though I could see them switch to modifiers only.

I doubt they will do that either. It would make rolling a character with dice more complicated (minor, but non-negligible issue) and it would make attribute-reducing attacks much more deadly due to death spiral as every hit would have an impact.