D&D General 5e System Redesign through New Classes and Setting. A Thought Experiment.

[Zardnaar]

Well! Any thoughts on the outlined adventure thoughts?

Sounds familiar to some older campaigns ive done.

The downsides are that as well. Players dont care to much about town of the week and BPCs of the week.
Very similar structure to the old Savage Tide AP. Are you familiar with Savage Tide?

 

[Steampunkette]

Sounds familiar to some older campaigns ive done.

The downsides are that as well. Players dont care to much about town of the week and BPCs of the week.
Very similar structure to the old Savage Tide AP. Are you familiar with Savage Tide?

I played it a loooong time ago, yeah.

So here's my big thought for the season arc/metaplot for an adventure so that it has some attainable goals and meaningful impact without 'destroying' the setting:

Prologue is the invasion. The war has begun, and your party is fighting back against it.

Act 1: You're the new Thundercats/Masters of the Universe/Silverhawks heroes of light/eternia/whatever. You're tasked with, essentially, guerilla warfare against the alien invaders. Fighting asymmetrically against their forces by targeting specific engagements to slow down their attacks. You go from place to place meeting new allies and old enemies and work towards being the big heroes. You face some setbacks but you're mostly successful. The big mid-season event is that you work with your allies to break some kind of super powered relay station to disable the Jump Gates/Wormholes/Portals/Whatever so the aliens don't have infinite reinforcements coming from countless other worlds.

Act 2: The aliens double-down on their attack. Cut off from reinforcements they instead try to make a decapitating strike against the leaders of the world including your party. Out come the Siege Engine Monsters and the Wrought Dragons and stuff to try and destroy you, the bad guys you've been allying with against the aliens, everything. Friends you made in Act 1 are in peril and might get axed if you don't work to save them in various new locations 'cause they've been helping you slow down the aliens. Malevar gets involved, -directly-, and gets disintegrated at least once, possibly saving a party member. He laughs as he's destroyed because he is -Eternal-.

Act 3: The final push against the aliens to take out their leadership and/or their engineering teams who are trying to get the uplink online so they can, once again, have infinite reinforcements. Malevar returns and helps to fight in order to secure more power for himself. After the big knock down drag-out with the aliens, you have to fight Malevar directly, as he once again tries to consume an energy source bigger than his inflated ego. Just like 800 years ago, the Heroes of Light kick his butt back to his castle to sleep it off and plot for his next campaign of evil.

Thoughts on the overarching structure?

 

[Steampunkette]

Also... If the Swordmage had good saves of Str/Dex, but used Int in place of Dex while armored up and Int in place of Str/Dex when using attack cantrips... Would that be really clever design or really bad design?

'Cause then at high end you could drop your 8 in Strength and your 10 in Dex and wind up with a saving throw matrix of:
Str +5, Dex +6, Con +5, Int +5, Wis +3, Cha +1

Which is really "Balanced" compared to most classes that are really good at one or two saves and terrible at all the rest... But with DCs of 20-24 being common in the end-game, it places them as 'Not Great' on any saving throw, really. After all, an Adult Red Dragon's breath weapon is a DC 21 at level 17. Where a Rogue needs a 10 or higher, the Swordmage would need a 15. And it would be that way on most saves at that level...

But the Swordmage would pretty much need a 15-16 on 4 different saves. Where on a Strength Save that Rogue might need a Nat 20 just to pass.

Of course if you grab some more ASIs instead of Feats, or half-feats that grant +1 to an attribute, you could improve those all a lot.

Like... Resilient would suddenly be really great for Constitution and/or Wisdom.

Also helps to defeat the over-reliance on Dex builds and weapons for at least one class...

Thoughts?

 

[Corinnguard]

Also... If the Swordmage had good saves of Str/Dex, but used Int in place of Dex while armored up and Int in place of Str/Dex when using attack cantrips... Would that be really clever design or really bad design?

It would better if the INT modifier is added to your DEX when you are armored up and when you are using STR/DEX for your attack cantrips.

 

[Steampunkette]

It would better if the INT modifier is added to your DEX when you are armored up and when you are using STR/DEX for your attack cantrips.

So in Light Armor your AC would be 11/12+Dex+Int, and in Medium armor it would be 12/13/14/15+((Dex+Int) max 2)?

That would make a plausible high end AC of 22 (24 with a shield, 29 if you spend a reaction and a spell slot) in Light Armor... and Medium Armor would be at 17 (19 with a shield, 24 with a reaction and a spell slot).

Or are you saying Medium would be 12/13/14/15+Dex(Max 2)+Int?

That'd put them both on the same level with a plausible high end AC of 22 (24 with shield, 29 if you spend a reaction and a spell slot)

But it still makes them MAD... and also potentially really good at Dex saves if Str/Dex is the way those saves still go. It would also make Dex the "King Stat" for the class, like it is for so many others, and making their saving throw DC fairly low.

 

[Corinnguard]

So in Light Armor your AC would be 11/12+Dex+Int, and in Medium armor it would be 12/13/14/15+((Dex+Int) max 2)?

That would make a plausible high end AC of 22 (24 with a shield, 29 if you spend a reaction and a spell slot) in Light Armor... and Medium Armor would be at 17 (19 with a shield, 24 with a reaction and a spell slot).

Or are you saying Medium would be 12/13/14/15+Dex(Max 2)+Int?

That'd put them both on the same level with a plausible high end AC of 22 (24 with shield, 29 if you spend a reaction and a spell slot)

But it still makes them MAD... and also potentially really good at Dex saves if Str/Dex is the way those saves still go. It would also make Dex the "King Stat" for the class, like it is for so many others, and making their saving throw DC fairly low.

Light Armor: 11/12 +DEX + INT
Medium Armor: 12/13/14/15+ DEX (Max 2) + INT

Do any of your Swordmage subclasses receive an AC bonus at certain levels?

 

[Steampunkette]

Light Armor: 11/12 +DEX + INT
Medium Armor: 12/13/14/15+ DEX (Max 2) + INT

Do any of your Swordmage subclasses receive an AC bonus at certain levels?

They do not... but also Magic bonuses would apply. So a +3 Studded Leather (Brigandine) or Breastplate would put them up to a 25 with a 27 if they have a shield, 30 if the shield is also +3...

That's insane levels of 'always on' AC, even at high end... Fighters and Paladins are looking at an AC of around 23-26 at maximum.

 

[Corinnguard]

They do not... but also Magic bonuses would apply. So a +3 Studded Leather (Brigandine) or Breastplate would put them up to a 25 with a 27 if they have a shield, 30 if the shield is also +3...

That's insane levels of 'always on' AC, even at high end... Fighters and Paladins are looking at an AC of around 23-26 at maximum.

It's cool. I asked because Laser Llama's Order of the Blade (formerly Order of the Bladedancer) Magus does receive an AC bonus at key levels whenever they enter their Bladedance trance. When they reach 15th level, this feature grants them a +3 bonus to AC.

 

[Steampunkette]

It's cool. I asked because Laser Llama's Order of the Blade (formerly Order of the Bladedancer) Magus does receive an AC bonus at key levels whenever they enter their Bladedance trance. When they reach 15th level, this feature grants them a +3 bonus to AC.

I will say.. you -have- given me an interesting idea on how to 'sell' the Swordmage as a really solid tank... The promise of what Paladin was 'supposed' to be, which gets undercut hard by Aura of Protection. A high AC target that you slap around with spells because for all the big powerful plate their saving throws are an easier target.

I -could- go that way with the Swordmage by letting them straight stack Dex/Int on AC while armored, perhaps make a note that the Int bonus is magic and thus overlaps with, and supercedes, a +1, +2, or +3 armor... Then still go for the Int-centric build structure for their cantrip attacks rather than Dex being used for that, making Dex less useful overall.

Could start out in Scale Mail with a Shield and have an AC of 17 at level 1 with a Dex of 10. But if you slot a 12 in there it's like you have Chain Mail and a Shield at a 25gp discount. Provides some room for improvement...

But this way the highest end is still 15 (Breastplate)+2 (Dex)+5 (Int)+5 (+3 Shield) for a 27. Only 1 point higher than a Fighter or Paladin wearing +3 Full Plate and a +3 Shield at 26.