doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Rogue mixes very well with Bladesinger, as does Artificer.
D&D 5E 5E -- Viable Bladesinger Multiclass Options?
Alas, my DM is not fond of artificer -- a former member of the group apparently somehow convinced him to let him "multiclass" to take two different branches of artificer (this was back with the UA version, not the official version in Eberron: Rising from the Last War), and it made for a mess. It's also why my DM wants nothing to do with warforged (same player and character). Otherwise, I'd have made a warforged artificer as well... even if the double-bladed scimitar looked like fun (though if I'd wanted to play with that, I would have gone hexblade warlock, but that's another discussion entirely).
Esker
Hero
I think your spell selection approach is solid. With that party, control spells will be very effective; much more so than focusing on melee. And as a control caster, keeping up with spell progression is that much more important: you're not going to be using all your slots upcasting shadow blade and the like: you want your Slows and Walls of Force, etc. ASAP.
I agree with @doctorbadwolf, but would rephrase: bladesinger mixes well with rogue more so than rogue mixes well with bladesinger. That is, bladesinger provides a nice melee boost to a rogue who is primarily doing melee. A couple of rogue levels for cunning action can be good on a primary bladesinger who does a lot of melee, but if you're only a backup melee, it's less useful.
I agree with @doctorbadwolf, but would rephrase: bladesinger mixes well with rogue more so than rogue mixes well with bladesinger. That is, bladesinger provides a nice melee boost to a rogue who is primarily doing melee. A couple of rogue levels for cunning action can be good on a primary bladesinger who does a lot of melee, but if you're only a backup melee, it's less useful.
Esker
Hero
Another consideration that occurs to me is that with a swashbuckler in the party, they may have the primary face role covered. It'd be worth checking with them what skills they're planning to take expertise in so you don't wind up stepping on each other. The paladin may want to take persuasion too. So could be you'd want to drop one of persuasion or deception, opening up room for acrobatics (or something else of interest), and then maybe Skilled isn't such a high priority and you could just max out your INT and maybe take Mobile (maybe taking Skilled later when proficiency matters more).
So, an update: I'm actually steering away from Rogue, in part because I'm gonna try and have a house moonblade feature as part of my character's backstory -- specifically, that it's been stolen and that one of my goals is to get it back. Even if rogues have a "heart of gold", I'm a little leery of it (and it's entirely possible that there will ultimately be no moonblade, that will be something for the DM and I to work out), but I do want to be considered "worthy" of the blade if it does actually come to pass.
As a high elf, I'm starting with STR 12, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 16, CHA 15. Skillwise, I'll have Perception from high elf, Acrobatics and Stealth from my custom background (an infiltration/sneaky type blending part of Faction Agent and Urban Bounty Hunter from SCAG), and both Insight and Investigation from wizard (scary that I'm ignoring Arcana and History, right?). As we're starting at level 2, I decided to stick with the idea of a 1-level dip... in Cleric. So, I get light and medium armor, plus shields... I get 1st-level cleric spells as well. That's sorta okay (at least I'm not losing progression in spell slots), and I'd get light armor from going into Bladesinger anyway (and medium armor and shields are admittedly a waste). But... Divine Domain (Knowledge) gives me Arcana and History, as well as Expertise in both. So, seven skills (with Performance coming as number eight next level), six languages (Common, Elvish and one other from high elf, another from the custom background, and two more from Blessings of Knowledge from Divine Domain (Knowledge)).
This lets the paladin and swashbuckler both be the dominant social faces of the party (though I can be an entertainer of sorts after next level with Performance), yet allows me the flexibility to take on a unique (for a wizard) skillset.
I've admittedly asked about this on Reddit as well, and while I'm still a little leery of it, upon closer inspection of the spells I do feel a little better about trying to get into melee some more, so I'm going to try and mix it up a bit between battlefield control and some damage, as well as play into some more melee as well. Having detect magic and identify as part of Knowledge cleric spells opens up some of the known first-level spells from wizard, if nothing else.
As a high elf, I'm starting with STR 12, DEX 18, CON 16, INT 18, WIS 16, CHA 15. Skillwise, I'll have Perception from high elf, Acrobatics and Stealth from my custom background (an infiltration/sneaky type blending part of Faction Agent and Urban Bounty Hunter from SCAG), and both Insight and Investigation from wizard (scary that I'm ignoring Arcana and History, right?). As we're starting at level 2, I decided to stick with the idea of a 1-level dip... in Cleric. So, I get light and medium armor, plus shields... I get 1st-level cleric spells as well. That's sorta okay (at least I'm not losing progression in spell slots), and I'd get light armor from going into Bladesinger anyway (and medium armor and shields are admittedly a waste). But... Divine Domain (Knowledge) gives me Arcana and History, as well as Expertise in both. So, seven skills (with Performance coming as number eight next level), six languages (Common, Elvish and one other from high elf, another from the custom background, and two more from Blessings of Knowledge from Divine Domain (Knowledge)).
This lets the paladin and swashbuckler both be the dominant social faces of the party (though I can be an entertainer of sorts after next level with Performance), yet allows me the flexibility to take on a unique (for a wizard) skillset.
I've admittedly asked about this on Reddit as well, and while I'm still a little leery of it, upon closer inspection of the spells I do feel a little better about trying to get into melee some more, so I'm going to try and mix it up a bit between battlefield control and some damage, as well as play into some more melee as well. Having detect magic and identify as part of Knowledge cleric spells opens up some of the known first-level spells from wizard, if nothing else.
Okay, another update:
Several of us were able to get a few more details out of the DM, as well as chat a little with one another about our planned characters... and boy, do I have some decisions to make.
So, the campaign setting: humanity was in a war with the demi-human races in the past (at least two hundred years before "present day" when the campaign begins), and they lost... BADLY. At this point, by population, elves are the most numerous, followed by dwarves, orc, gnomes, halflings, the half-races (half-eves, half-orcs), tieflings and then humans at the bottom of the list -- they are considered pretty rare (the survivors are either enslaved by the other demi-human races or living in hidden enclaves), and there are definite racist undertones (though, with my party, it's generally petty insults at best -- I know this from my female drow Celestial warlock bearing the brunt of it, but I gave as good as I got and it's all in good fun at the table, so no harm, no foul). Dragonborn are pretty non-existent -- as are dragons, apparently: at least, no one has seen a dragon in a LONG, long time.
There are seven large islands (very large, maybe as much as subcontinent in size) that will be feared, and each one will be ruled by a warlord. Into the Badlands was specifically mentioned as an inspiration for this; with the swashbuckling and the apparent plan to be going back and forth between the various islands, I'm adding a bit of Pirates of the Caribbean into the mix. So I'm seeing swashbuckling, a bit of piracy, and looks to be a fair bit of political intrigue in the mix as well.
This all sounds great, and we're all looking forward to it, but... our party is gonna have the deck stacked against it, despite having six in the party. Right now, three are apparently planning to be variant humans (a barbarian who might go monk instead, hasn't decided for certain yet; a ranger who's going Monster Hunter; and the rogue who's going Swashbuckler). Of the remaining members: one is a complete unknown aside from being a druid (no idea on race or on the druid circle he's aiming for), and the remaining two of us (myself included) are moon elves -- one a paladin going either Oath of the Ancients or Oath of Vengeance, and my "wizard".
The rogue going Swashbuckler seems interested in trying to be the main social "face" of the party, but the only way he'll be able to do that is to use a disguise kit on a daily basis to pretend to be an elf. I figure it won't be too long before the paladin or my character would discover the truth, and if he has a bad roll, the party will have quite the uphill climb when making any sort of negotiations. I'm pretty sure the paladin will cover Persuasion, but I'm beginning to seriously consider whether to try and be a backup social "face" as well, especially seeing as how we're six strong, and three of them are going to have the decks stacked against them from the start.
============================
With all that above, I'm honestly feeling confused about what I should consider doing. The more I look at this, the more I think multiclassing is going to have to be the main option, but I have no idea which way to go. I've waffled between a two-level bard dip, to a single-level cleric or rogue dip. And at this point, I'm actually open to alternatives: I've idly considered maybe doing something a bit twisted (for instance, hexblade warlock dip for a sorcerer going with Shadow Magic) -- I do want to keep it arcane spellcasting, but I need advice on whether to try and build towards being a social "face", or whether to keep with the current build I'm favoring (Wizard 1 / Cleric (Knowledge) 1) to be a more stealth-oriented, acrobatic bladesinger-to-be.
Any advice or thoughts are very welcome.
Several of us were able to get a few more details out of the DM, as well as chat a little with one another about our planned characters... and boy, do I have some decisions to make.
So, the campaign setting: humanity was in a war with the demi-human races in the past (at least two hundred years before "present day" when the campaign begins), and they lost... BADLY. At this point, by population, elves are the most numerous, followed by dwarves, orc, gnomes, halflings, the half-races (half-eves, half-orcs), tieflings and then humans at the bottom of the list -- they are considered pretty rare (the survivors are either enslaved by the other demi-human races or living in hidden enclaves), and there are definite racist undertones (though, with my party, it's generally petty insults at best -- I know this from my female drow Celestial warlock bearing the brunt of it, but I gave as good as I got and it's all in good fun at the table, so no harm, no foul). Dragonborn are pretty non-existent -- as are dragons, apparently: at least, no one has seen a dragon in a LONG, long time.
There are seven large islands (very large, maybe as much as subcontinent in size) that will be feared, and each one will be ruled by a warlord. Into the Badlands was specifically mentioned as an inspiration for this; with the swashbuckling and the apparent plan to be going back and forth between the various islands, I'm adding a bit of Pirates of the Caribbean into the mix. So I'm seeing swashbuckling, a bit of piracy, and looks to be a fair bit of political intrigue in the mix as well.
This all sounds great, and we're all looking forward to it, but... our party is gonna have the deck stacked against it, despite having six in the party. Right now, three are apparently planning to be variant humans (a barbarian who might go monk instead, hasn't decided for certain yet; a ranger who's going Monster Hunter; and the rogue who's going Swashbuckler). Of the remaining members: one is a complete unknown aside from being a druid (no idea on race or on the druid circle he's aiming for), and the remaining two of us (myself included) are moon elves -- one a paladin going either Oath of the Ancients or Oath of Vengeance, and my "wizard".
The rogue going Swashbuckler seems interested in trying to be the main social "face" of the party, but the only way he'll be able to do that is to use a disguise kit on a daily basis to pretend to be an elf. I figure it won't be too long before the paladin or my character would discover the truth, and if he has a bad roll, the party will have quite the uphill climb when making any sort of negotiations. I'm pretty sure the paladin will cover Persuasion, but I'm beginning to seriously consider whether to try and be a backup social "face" as well, especially seeing as how we're six strong, and three of them are going to have the decks stacked against them from the start.
============================
With all that above, I'm honestly feeling confused about what I should consider doing. The more I look at this, the more I think multiclassing is going to have to be the main option, but I have no idea which way to go. I've waffled between a two-level bard dip, to a single-level cleric or rogue dip. And at this point, I'm actually open to alternatives: I've idly considered maybe doing something a bit twisted (for instance, hexblade warlock dip for a sorcerer going with Shadow Magic) -- I do want to keep it arcane spellcasting, but I need advice on whether to try and build towards being a social "face", or whether to keep with the current build I'm favoring (Wizard 1 / Cleric (Knowledge) 1) to be a more stealth-oriented, acrobatic bladesinger-to-be.
Any advice or thoughts are very welcome.
Esker
Hero
Between a barbarian/monk, ranger, paladin and rogue, your party has a lot of martial capability, so I think leaning heavily into being a support-focused caster makes sense. Particularly if the first player goes with monk, there's already going to be a lot of mobile acrobatic business going on, and so it could be that bladesinger isn't the best choice of wizard subclass, if only to give others a greater sense of uniqueness.
If you are really worried about the party not having enough face capability, you could even opt for being a charisma-based caster and not doing wizard (bards are great support characters, especially in larger parties, and can do a lot to help the others shine). And a lore bard in particular can pick up a ton of proficiencies, and use that 6th level magical secrets to fill a gap in the party (e.g., fireball). I personally like lore bard for you more than I like shadow sorcerer, simply for versatility reasons.
If you go with bard, would you consider (and would you be allowed) to be an eladrin instead of a moon elf? (Mainly for the CHA bonus, since it sucks to have to start with a +2 in your casting stat; but the Misty Step 1/SR is also great.)
With only one other full caster in the party, I would recommend against multiclassing, at least before level 5. You really want to be able to cast the highest level spells possible when needed.
All of that said, I wouldn't think that posing as an elf would be too tall an order for a human rogue, and you also have the paladin, so just sticking with wizard seems like a solid plan too. You might consider diviner instead of bladesinger: being able to toss a low portent roll onto a key NPC's insight check (or a high one onto the rogue's deception check) is also a good way to be an "assistant face", not to mention all the other uses for portent.
If you are really worried about the party not having enough face capability, you could even opt for being a charisma-based caster and not doing wizard (bards are great support characters, especially in larger parties, and can do a lot to help the others shine). And a lore bard in particular can pick up a ton of proficiencies, and use that 6th level magical secrets to fill a gap in the party (e.g., fireball). I personally like lore bard for you more than I like shadow sorcerer, simply for versatility reasons.
If you go with bard, would you consider (and would you be allowed) to be an eladrin instead of a moon elf? (Mainly for the CHA bonus, since it sucks to have to start with a +2 in your casting stat; but the Misty Step 1/SR is also great.)
With only one other full caster in the party, I would recommend against multiclassing, at least before level 5. You really want to be able to cast the highest level spells possible when needed.
All of that said, I wouldn't think that posing as an elf would be too tall an order for a human rogue, and you also have the paladin, so just sticking with wizard seems like a solid plan too. You might consider diviner instead of bladesinger: being able to toss a low portent roll onto a key NPC's insight check (or a high one onto the rogue's deception check) is also a good way to be an "assistant face", not to mention all the other uses for portent.
TheDeadPoet
First Post
I had to come up with a 6th level character recently in Adventurer's League and I made a Bladesinger that is actually multiclassed.
The key role to fill was to be a ''tank'' and a big AC/HP pool kind of character. I took a twist on things and multiclassed twice to come up with a mix of Druid (Moon), 1 level of Barbarian and 3 levels of Bladesinger.
Barbarian 1/Moon 2/Bladesinger 3.
You're looking at a build that is fairly tanky while dishing out reasonable damage. We can grapple stuff around if we want (the bear gives us +7 athletic, I plan on getting expertise through one dip into Rogue at some point, but when my proficiency bonus will be a bit higher then + 3 (I'm thinking right after Bladesinger 6 for Extra Attack).
13 Strenght
14 Dexterity
14 Consitution
13 Intelligence
(19 with headband of intellect)
14 Wisdom
9 Charisma
As a Wood Elf. You get 35 base speed.
The characters has plenty of options to boost his AC in Wild Shape(Mirror Image into Bladesong turn 1, something with concentration you want or Attack, with Wild Shape as a bonus turn 2).
Through a mix of Brown Bear from, Rage, Bladesong and some nice battlefield control spells (Entangle, Web, Grease) you get a difficult foe to ignore that will certainly demand attention.
You can also break your concentration with a rage as a bonus action if the battlefield shifts a bit. Placing an early Web and getting rid of it by turn 2-3 when the spell got the job done is clearly a transition that is a switch hitter playstyle.
The damage is not too shabby. If your DM is ok, Bracers of defense/Headband of intellect are two items I gave my character that can meld into a Wild Shape form (AL stuff, I DM a lot and I have a lot of stuff to create characters I never play with).
Brown Bear represent an AC of 10 + 3 Consitution modifier + 4 Intelligence modifier while we are into a Bladesong. If you rage on top of that, you're negating by half all damage that comes from bludgeoning, slashing and piecing weapons.
That is a multiclass that will scale well due to having access to a lot of spells and being a prime grappler. As of level 6, you can grapple foe up to one size larger then a Huge creature. (Enlarge is a Wizard spell). You can also give yourself a natural advantage with your Find Familiar, as well as retain insane utility with a lot of handy rituals in your spellbook.
Add on top of that some healing from the Druid spell list and you're a pretty well rounded tank that comes off as a support while being a good damage dealer.
The key role to fill was to be a ''tank'' and a big AC/HP pool kind of character. I took a twist on things and multiclassed twice to come up with a mix of Druid (Moon), 1 level of Barbarian and 3 levels of Bladesinger.
Barbarian 1/Moon 2/Bladesinger 3.
You're looking at a build that is fairly tanky while dishing out reasonable damage. We can grapple stuff around if we want (the bear gives us +7 athletic, I plan on getting expertise through one dip into Rogue at some point, but when my proficiency bonus will be a bit higher then + 3 (I'm thinking right after Bladesinger 6 for Extra Attack).
13 Strenght
14 Dexterity
14 Consitution
13 Intelligence
(19 with headband of intellect)
14 Wisdom
9 Charisma
As a Wood Elf. You get 35 base speed.
The characters has plenty of options to boost his AC in Wild Shape(Mirror Image into Bladesong turn 1, something with concentration you want or Attack, with Wild Shape as a bonus turn 2).
Through a mix of Brown Bear from, Rage, Bladesong and some nice battlefield control spells (Entangle, Web, Grease) you get a difficult foe to ignore that will certainly demand attention.
You can also break your concentration with a rage as a bonus action if the battlefield shifts a bit. Placing an early Web and getting rid of it by turn 2-3 when the spell got the job done is clearly a transition that is a switch hitter playstyle.
The damage is not too shabby. If your DM is ok, Bracers of defense/Headband of intellect are two items I gave my character that can meld into a Wild Shape form (AL stuff, I DM a lot and I have a lot of stuff to create characters I never play with).
Brown Bear represent an AC of 10 + 3 Consitution modifier + 4 Intelligence modifier while we are into a Bladesong. If you rage on top of that, you're negating by half all damage that comes from bludgeoning, slashing and piecing weapons.
That is a multiclass that will scale well due to having access to a lot of spells and being a prime grappler. As of level 6, you can grapple foe up to one size larger then a Huge creature. (Enlarge is a Wizard spell). You can also give yourself a natural advantage with your Find Familiar, as well as retain insane utility with a lot of handy rituals in your spellbook.
Add on top of that some healing from the Druid spell list and you're a pretty well rounded tank that comes off as a support while being a good damage dealer.
If I stayed with Wizard 1 / Cleric (Knowledge) 1, my plan was this:
High Elf: Perception proficiency, Common, Elvish and one additional language, cantrip (booming blade)
Background: custom background with Acrobatics and Stealth, one language and thieves tools (though I could go with forgery kit instead, since it was gonna be themed as an infiltration type.
Wizard 1: Insight and Investigation skill proficiencies
Cleric (Knowledge) 1: get light + medium armor and shields, simple + martial weapons; Blessings of Knowledge give us two more languages, plus choosing Arcana and History (which will come with Expertise)
Skill-wise, this gives me Acrobatics, Arcana*, History*, Insight, Investigation, Perception and Stealth, with Performance coming on the following level when entering the Bladesinger arcane tradition (asterisks indicate expertise). I was gonna be a bit of a mini-skill monkey in that regard.
One alternative, ironically, would be to go back to my original plan of a two-level Bard dip. I could start off as Wizard (Bladesinger) 2 in that regard, get to 5th level for the 3rd-level spells, then dive into Bard for those two levels. Skillwise, I'd have Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation and Perception (the background might wind up being either Sage or Faction Agent). Come 6th level and Bard 1, I'd likely take Acrobatics (partially to go with the Bladesinger's bladesong, partially because my DM likes using it as a means to evade grapple checks), and then the Bard 2 (7th level) would get Jack of All Trades to get half my proficiency bonus to all the other skills (and Initiative).
The other alternative would be to take a level of Rogue, then Wizard as a straight shot. That would give me just as many skills at level 1 as the Wizard / Cleric multiclass would give me.
====================
Given what's happened, though, and how martially-oriented my party is, I can't help but wonder if perhaps I should consider something different. I have something in mind, but I'll have to check with my DM to find out for certain whether he'd allow the Pyromancer or Phoenix Sorcery Sorcerous Origins (Pyromancer from Planeshift: Kaladesh; Phoenix Sorcery from Unearthed Arcana) to go along with Warlock (could be Hexblade, could go Celestial) -- it might not be an optimal build like the Divine Soul Sorcerous Origin, but we've got more than enough healing, what with a druid, paladin and ranger with cure wounds in their spell list (more than my current party, which is now (and was originally) me as a Celestial warlock, though for the main thrust of the campaign I had a bit of help from the dwarf fighter who multiclassed into a few levels of cleric, but I was still the main healer even then).
If only there were a way to gestalt in 5E: Celestial Warlock with Pyromancer/Phoenix Sorcery Sorcerer would actually blend together very well, given the Celestial Warlock's 14th level Searing Vengeance ability.
High Elf: Perception proficiency, Common, Elvish and one additional language, cantrip (booming blade)
Background: custom background with Acrobatics and Stealth, one language and thieves tools (though I could go with forgery kit instead, since it was gonna be themed as an infiltration type.
Wizard 1: Insight and Investigation skill proficiencies
Cleric (Knowledge) 1: get light + medium armor and shields, simple + martial weapons; Blessings of Knowledge give us two more languages, plus choosing Arcana and History (which will come with Expertise)
Skill-wise, this gives me Acrobatics, Arcana*, History*, Insight, Investigation, Perception and Stealth, with Performance coming on the following level when entering the Bladesinger arcane tradition (asterisks indicate expertise). I was gonna be a bit of a mini-skill monkey in that regard.
One alternative, ironically, would be to go back to my original plan of a two-level Bard dip. I could start off as Wizard (Bladesinger) 2 in that regard, get to 5th level for the 3rd-level spells, then dive into Bard for those two levels. Skillwise, I'd have Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation and Perception (the background might wind up being either Sage or Faction Agent). Come 6th level and Bard 1, I'd likely take Acrobatics (partially to go with the Bladesinger's bladesong, partially because my DM likes using it as a means to evade grapple checks), and then the Bard 2 (7th level) would get Jack of All Trades to get half my proficiency bonus to all the other skills (and Initiative).
The other alternative would be to take a level of Rogue, then Wizard as a straight shot. That would give me just as many skills at level 1 as the Wizard / Cleric multiclass would give me.
====================
Given what's happened, though, and how martially-oriented my party is, I can't help but wonder if perhaps I should consider something different. I have something in mind, but I'll have to check with my DM to find out for certain whether he'd allow the Pyromancer or Phoenix Sorcery Sorcerous Origins (Pyromancer from Planeshift: Kaladesh; Phoenix Sorcery from Unearthed Arcana) to go along with Warlock (could be Hexblade, could go Celestial) -- it might not be an optimal build like the Divine Soul Sorcerous Origin, but we've got more than enough healing, what with a druid, paladin and ranger with cure wounds in their spell list (more than my current party, which is now (and was originally) me as a Celestial warlock, though for the main thrust of the campaign I had a bit of help from the dwarf fighter who multiclassed into a few levels of cleric, but I was still the main healer even then).
If only there were a way to gestalt in 5E: Celestial Warlock with Pyromancer/Phoenix Sorcery Sorcerer would actually blend together very well, given the Celestial Warlock's 14th level Searing Vengeance ability.
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