D&D 5E (2014) 5e's new gender policy - is it attracting new players?

[Hussar]

What is wrong with this category of players is that they are seeking to alter the demographics of the RPG community by removing "undesirables" - and I am part of the demographic they are actively seeking to eliminate.

While I believe that yes, their belief is wrong, the problem is much bigger than a difference of opinion. I have not come across a litmus test of, "If you support gay rights, you shouldn't be allowed to play RPGs" but I am seeing more of the other way around. And how far does this get carried? Should stores refuse business to people for having the "wrong views"?

As a fan, a member of the community, and a customer, I have one right - and that right is to not be told, "You can't be here anymore."

I personally witnessed a Magic: the Gathering tournament where a person was disqualified for wearing a shirt that said "marriage=man+woman" shirt; the head judge waited until the tournament was started, then said, "Round 1 has started. Do not start playing." He walked over to the player and loudly proclaimed he was disqualified without prize for being a bigot. I have told this story before, and there is always one person who applauds the judge for doing that. Do you?

Yup. I do. That one guy was making how many people uncomfortable in the room? What right does he have to come to a private function, which is what a Magic tournament is, and make X number of people feel unwelcome to be there. He absolutely should get ejected. It's bigotry at its finest. Why would you accept the idea that someone comes to a Magic tournament to make a political statement, but, feel that other people who do the same thing should not be allowed at the gaming table?

You've flat out stated that you would not allow LGBT depictions at your table because it's a political message. But, this guy is making a political statement in public at a gaming table, and it's okay? Methinks thou dost protest too much.

 

[Hathorym]

What is wrong with this category of players is that they are seeking to alter the demographics of the RPG community by removing "undesirables" - and I am part of the demographic they are actively seeking to eliminate.

While I believe that yes, their belief is wrong, the problem is much bigger than a difference of opinion. I have not come across a litmus test of, "If you support gay rights, you shouldn't be allowed to play RPGs" but I am seeing more of the other way around. And how far does this get carried? Should stores refuse business to people for having the "wrong views"?

As a fan, a member of the community, and a customer, I have one right - and that right is to not be told, "You can't be here anymore."

You are decrying the fact that you feel as if you are being pushed out of a hobby you love while at the same time defending your right to not allow certain others to express themselves. This is honestly what I am reading, and I apologize if I have oversimplified your arguments.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I have had numerous players--gay and straight--play gay or bi characters. Sometimes because they were more comfortable with it. Sometimes because they wanted to RP something different. And at no point where they trying to make a political statement, unless "I exist" is political.

People IRL are gay. They are bi. They are trans. Telling them they cannot portray that in-game is harmful. No matter where you say it comes from, no matter what justification, exclusion of people for who they are causes real, lasting damage.

So yes, that passage was absolutely essential, as a way of telling marginalized people, "We acknowledge you, and you're welcome." And yes, for that reason--because I have seen firsthand the damage this marginalization causes--I will refuse to play with anyone who objects to the inclusion of this passage; who refuses to permit gay/bi/trans characters. And while I will not actively seek to drive such people from the hobby, when put in a position to choose I will always, always favor including the victims of bigotry over those who "disapprove" of them.

 

[Mistwell]

The talk of male writers writing females poorly reminded me of this clip (intended as just humor):

[video=youtube;pBz0BTb83H8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8[/video]

 

[mrm1138]

The talk of male writers writing females poorly reminded me of this clip (intended as just humor)

Holy crap! It's been so long since I've seen that movie that I didn't realize it was Julie Benz in that scene!

 

[Shasarak]

I personally witnessed a Magic: the Gathering tournament where a person was disqualified for wearing a shirt that said "marriage=man+woman" shirt; the head judge waited until the tournament was started, then said, "Round 1 has started. Do not start playing." He walked over to the player and loudly proclaimed he was disqualified without prize for being a bigot. I have told this story before, and there is always one person who applauds the judge for doing that. Do you?

Sounds like the Judge was in the wrong in this case. Hopefully the next Judge was a bit more competent.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Sounds like the Judge was in the wrong in this case. Hopefully the next Judge was a bit more competent.

Disagreed. It might have been more appropriate to ask the guy to change before booting him, but a shirt like that is absolutely going to make a lot of people feel unwelcome and, given historical context, even unsafe.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Let me expand on that.

Openly gay people are still at risk of being berated, excluded, even beaten and killed, for who they are. To you, wearing that shirt may just be making a statement, but to them, it's very literally a threat. Sure, maybe only 1 in 100 of the people wearing that shirt would actually harm them, but they have no way of telling who that one is.

Plus, even if it's not a direct threat, it's still an emotional assault, no different than someone wearing an openly racist or openly antisemitic shirt. Again, those may seem different to the people wearing them, but it's exactly the same to the audience.

If this were about someone wearing a swastika or white power shirt, this wouldn't even be a topic of conversation. To the people affected by the social issues in question, it's the same thing.

 

[Shasarak]

Disagreed. It might have been more appropriate to ask the guy to change before booting him, but a shirt like that is absolutely going to make a lot of people feel unwelcome and, given historical context, even unsafe.

I guess, if the guys shirt actually said something to make people feel unsafe.

Edit: Because the Holocaust is not the same as supporting Marriage between a Man and Woman.

 

[Lanliss]

I guess, if the guys shirt actually said something to make people feel unsafe.

Edit: Because the Holocaust is not the same as supporting Marriage between a Man and Woman.

Supporting marriage between a man and a woman does not mean that others cannot also enjoy marriage. This is supporting a very specific "Marriage is ONLY between a man and woman" stance, which is different. As others said, it may not seem threatening or harmful to the one wearing it, but it could be interpreted that way by the audience that is excluded by that statement. Especially if said audience has been negatively affected by such statements in the past.