D&D 5E 5th edition force cage spell

[tk32]

I agree.. THe issues I have are: 1. ) No save and no to "hit" So, no chance of failure at all.. 2.) Any type of magical means of escape - Teleport planar travel, gate, etc, requires a save. The wizard in the group right now has a save DC of 18. Many creatures have +4 - +5 at most at this level to their save. Meaning it's a 35% chance of getting a teleport, misty step, or some other escape spell off....

3. It cannot be dispelled... 4. Creatures can be cantripped to death. Even if arrows and stuff couldn't make it through, cleric and wizard cantrips could be used to whittle a creature down...

 

[Stalker0]

I could see an argument that it’s really legendary resistance that should be updated.

Forcecaging a normal monster I don’t think anyone has issue with. The problem is your epic “aka legendary” boss.

But there are several high level spells with no save. It probably makes sense that legandary resistance should just offer the same kind of protection.

Legendary resistance: when used against a spell that offers no safe, the spell fails to work against the creature.


That helps to fix both this spell and several others

 

[bgbarcus]

If the a creature with Legendary Resistance has any form of teleport, they can choose to succeed the Charisma saving throw for escaping the cage.

My group just hit 13th level a few sessions back and the bard, as is to be expected, added Forcecage to his spells. Since then, the PC has used it once to nerf one of the biggest monsters they've met but the rest of the monsters in that encounter still made it a very hard battle.

The second time Forcecage was used was against the PCs. I caught two PCs in the cage and positioned it to block access to the room with the bad guy. That gave the enemy a chance to escape. One of the characters inside the cage was the bard who's high Charisma made it fairly easy to Dimension Door out of the cage. Another character arrived at the cage a round later and used Disintegrate on the cage to free the second victim.

In both cases the Forcecage was potent but not overpowered. Characters at these levels are supposed to have lots of power and variety at their disposal. The monsters at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage of their own so the PCs need high power to handle them.

 

[Luz]

My players just reached 13th level and I was going over the 7th level spells selection when I read forcecage. Yeah, it's really damn good but I'll wait and see how it works in play, I'm sure the party wizard will take it. As others have mentioned, it's a high level spell so it should be pretty awesome. Plus, a lot of the monsters (at least, the ones that really matter) that the PCs are facing at this level will have spells or innate spellcasting to counter it: the already mentioned teleport, dimension door, etc. paired with legendary resistance for the auto Charisma save, disinitigrate, antimagic field, or using darkeness or invisibility to avoid being cantripped to death could also work.

 

[Audiomancer]

I'm away from home, and don't have access to my books, so apologies if this is covered elsewhere:

I don't see any statement that the creature trapped in the cage can't see outside it, making spell attacks on targets outside the cage (Fireball, etc.)

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I don't see any statement that the creature trapped in the cage can't see outside it, making spell attacks on targets outside the cage (Fireball, etc.)

There's nothing about that in the spell, but many monsters lack useful ranged attacks. The iron golem is probably the worst off, though the death knight is also fairly limited in its options.

 

[CapnZapp]

So, I'm running into an issue of this spell - as written being over powered. (I'm the DM for my group. The wizard of the party also has DMed for many more years than me and also thinks it's overpowered, but used it anyways... )

The force cage spell as written is:


"An immobile, invisible, cube-shaped prison composed of magical force springs into existence around an area you choose within range. The prison can be a cage or a solid box as you choose.
A prison in the shape of a cage can be up to 20 feet on a side and is made from 1/2-inch diameter bars spaced 1/2 inch apart.
A prison in the shape of a box can be up to 10 feet on a side, creating a solid barrier that prevents any matter from passing through it and blocking any spells cast into or out of the area.
When you cast the spell, any creature that is completely inside the cage’s area is trapped. Creatures only partially within the area, or those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center of the area until they are completely outside the area.
A creature inside the cage can’t leave it by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to leave the cage, it must first make a Charisma saving throw. On a success, the creature can use that magic to exit the cage. On a failure, the creature can’t exit the cage and wastes the use of the spell or effect. The cage also extends into the Ethereal Plane, blocking ethereal travel. This spell can’t be dispelled by dispel magic."


The wizard used it as a cage (meaning it has openings throughout the cage)... Which the creature would have total cover, but all attacks would go through the cage. The Cage prevents the creature from escaping the cage. They could attack, if they have ranged attacks through the cage just like the PCs but probably with disadvantage or cover since they'd be attacking through cover as well.

This leads to a one sided battle that allows pretty much any monster to be neutered. The PCs all took to using cantrips for up to the 1 hour duration to just cast a bunch of spells at the monster. I deemed it took around 15 - 20 minutes to cantrip it to death. The wizard did use a fireball to reduce the time, but overall the spell neutralizes any monster out of the battle. So, If Pcs are up against an adult and even an ancient dragon, boop, force cage. Now just shoot it to death from a distance, it can't do anything.... Yes, it's a 7th level spell and should be powerful. However, most anything could be killed within an hour of being shot at with cantrips and at will ranged attacks.. An ancient lich that has defined death for 1000s of years is just undone by a single seventh spell?

Thoughts on how you've balanced this spell? Or is there any clarification on whether monsters can be killed while in the cage?

Yep, you have it pretty much correct.

Both versions shut out the monster from the combat, a significant victory in itself.

The cage version with bars will allow you to pretty much autokill any monster without significant ranged attacks. =You can shoot in but it can't reach you.

The solid box version can't be killed, but also can't use ranged attacks against you. Here the purpose is to kill off any other monsters and then heal up and take out the trapped monster when you are all against one.

Even if the monster does have teleportation it needs a good Charisma. Very few monsters will have more than one attempt at escaping.

Only for the small subset of monsters with at will teleport or plane shift should you not use this spell.

The biggest limitation is the size of the forcecage, especially the solid box version - 10 ft on a side means Huge monsters are immune (20 ft on a size means only some Gargantuan monsters are).

This is a gold spell. It is simply fantastic - but remember it only works against one monster.

It does break any Solo encounter where you can disable a monster's melee attacks while still killing it with ranged fire.

 

[CapnZapp]

The monsters at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage of their own so the PCs need high power to handle them.

Unfortunately that reads as if you're talking about a previous edition.

High level monsters in 5e are significantly nerfed, especially with respects to "complicated" major powers.

A more accurate version of your statement for 5th edition would read:

"The PCs at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage so the monsters would have needed high power of their own to handle them."

 

[bgbarcus]

Unfortunately that reads as if you're talking about a previous edition.

High level monsters in 5e are significantly nerfed, especially with respects to "complicated" major powers.

A more accurate version of your statement for 5th edition would read:

"The PCs at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage so the monsters would have needed high power of their own to handle them."

The players of the two characters who were on the receiving end of a forcecage in my game might disagree.

 

[clutchbone]

A prison in the shape of a cage can be up to 20 feet on a side and is made from 1/2-inch diameter bars spaced 1/2 inch apart.
...

The wizard used it as a cage (meaning it has openings throughout the cage)... Which the creature would have total cover, but all attacks would go through the cage. The Cage prevents the creature from escaping the cage. They could attack, if they have ranged attacks through the cage just like the PCs but probably with disadvantage or cover since they'd be attacking through cover as well.
...
The PCs all took to using cantrips for up to the 1 hour duration to just cast a bunch of spells at the monster. I deemed it took around 15 - 20 minutes to cantrip it to death.
...
Thoughts on how you've balanced this spell? Or is there any clarification on whether monsters can be killed while in the cage?

A few things:
1) "A target with total cover can’t be targeted directly by an attack or a spell, although some Spells can reach such a target by including it in an area of effect. A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle."
- If you deemed the cage to provide total cover, your players should not have been allowed to target it at all. No cantripping to death. Fireball would've been fine.

2) "A target with three-quarters cover has a +5 bonus to AC and Dexterity saving throws. A target has three--quarters cover if about three--quarters of it is covered by an obstacle. The obstacle might be a portcullis, an arrow slit, or a thick tree trunk."
- Since you allowed your players to target the creature, did you factor in +5 AC/+5 Dex saves? Personally, I'd also tack on disadvantage to attack rolls as the forcecage's bars are denser than the average portcullis.

3) You specifically mention liches. A force caged lich being targeted by paltry cantrips would first cast globe of invulnerability, then counterspell whatever high level spell the player would use to overcome the globe, then disintegrate the force cage.