D&D 5E 5th edition force cage spell

CapnZapp

Legend
The players of the two characters who were on the receiving end of a forcecage in my game might disagree.
Anecdote is not data.

The fact remains, the number of monsters that can cast Forcecage, let alone escape from one, is very small. This makes the spell better than in previous editions, where monsters came equipped with arrays of spells and spell-like abilities.
 

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bgbarcus

Explorer
Anecdote is not data.

The fact remains, the number of monsters that can cast Forcecage, let alone escape from one, is very small. This makes the spell better than in previous editions, where monsters came equipped with arrays of spells and spell-like abilities.
If I remember correctly, the number of monsters with forcecage in their stat block is zero. I never let trivialities slow me down.
 


bgbarcus

Explorer
If you are going to post comments based on you fixing the problems the design team failed to fix, at least say so.

When I fix something I'll let you know. I tossed a couple of Archmage NPCs at my party. Didn't see any reason to use the suggested spell list in the MM so I changed it, specifically choosing forcecage for one of them because one of my players had used it the previous session. For whatever it's worth, I rarely stick to the suggested spells for NPCs - it would be really boring for every NPC Archmage to be identical.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
When I fix something I'll let you know. I tossed a couple of Archmage NPCs at my party. Didn't see any reason to use the suggested spell list in the MM so I changed it, specifically choosing forcecage for one of them because one of my players had used it the previous session. For whatever it's worth, I rarely stick to the suggested spells for NPCs - it would be really boring for every NPC Archmage to be identical.
That is entirely irrelevant to what I posted, so let's back up and ignore these last few posts. That you featured the Archmage NPCs (perhaps the most hyper-specialized monster stats block of all) and not just one but two, and furthermore took the time to customize them, do not change the general picture.

So here it is again:

Unfortunately that reads as if you're talking about a previous edition.

High level monsters in 5e are significantly nerfed, especially with respects to "complicated" major powers.

A more accurate version of your statement for 5th edition would read:

"The PCs at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage so the monsters would have needed high power of their own to handle them."

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app
 

bgbarcus

Explorer
That is entirely irrelevant to what I posted, so let's back up and ignore these last few posts. That you featured the Archmage NPCs (perhaps the most hyper-specialized monster stats block of all) and not just one but two, and furthermore took the time to customize them, do not change the general picture.

It was way more than just two archmages. :) My players have gotten good at working together. Additionally, we play with feats and multclasses and more magic items than seems normal for 5e because that's the style of game my players prefer. With six 13th level characters it took a heap of monsters to challenge them. On top of the archmages, there were multiple iron, stone, and flesh golems, six werewolves, several mage and lower level wizard NPCs and a bunch of non-spellcasting fighter type NPCs. Total monster XP for the area was a little less than 200,000. The "dungeon" was handled with one short rest mid-way through and the monsters used that time to adjust their defenses and tactics based on the abilities the PCs had exhibited.

"The PCs at these levels are packing some major powers and high damage so the monsters would have needed high power of their own to handle them."

You are correct - high level PCs in 5e are incredibly powerful and bring a variety of resources that makes them very hard to challenge. In comparison to everything else PCs can do by the time they have 7th level spells, forcecage is not overpowered, unless you define all 13th level PCs as overpowered.

I do agree that the bog standard monsters in the Monster Manual are weak compared to a party like mine. A baseline group of four PCs with few magic items (as seems to be expected by the rules) and no optional rules (e.g., feats) in use might find standard MM enemies to be a good fit. I don't have any experience playing at that baseline. I enjoy tinkering with monsters so players who have the MM at hand are wasting their time looking up stats during play (a common occurrence since we play online - I can't confiscate books).

Specifically discussing forcecage, it has quite a few limiting factors. Size is the first and foremost limit. Being 7th level is a big limit. Short of 20th level, nobody gets more than one 7th level slot, even at 20th level a PC is limited to four 7th level spells (using all 7th, 8th, and 9th level slots). That's a big resource cost for casting forcecage.

If you want to talk about a spell that is easy to categorized as overpowered, go for banishment. The number of big monsters that my players have killed by banishing and then preparing big reaction attacks for when the caster drops concentration is daunting. Banishment doesn't have a size limit and uses a Charisma save (almost always bad for monsters) and a 13th level wizard can cast banishment seven times a day with four of those taking out multiple monsters per casting.
 


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