D&D 5E 5th edition Forgotten Realms: Why can't you just ignore the lore?

[HobbitFan]

The problem is Sailor Moon, that fans of the setting have proven to have a fairly weak grasp on "established background". [MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION] already proved to you, more than once, that Tiamat has long been part of FR, as has Tharizdun and the Elder Evil.

Funny how "wrecking the gaff" means, "Stuff I personally don't like, regardless of quality", whenever this sort of discussion comes up.

Hussar: The problem with Tiamat and the Realms isn't that she doesn't have some history there. She does. The problem is that she hadn't been banished to the nine hells for centuries like the beginning of Tyranny of Dragons fluff suggests. And, she's really not that importnat a goddess in the Realms anyway. The second point can become a stength in that she and her worshippers work extra hard to become important. That's fine. The banished from the Realms for centuries and trying to come back when she already HAS come back is much more problematic.

 

[Sailor Moon]

The problem is Sailor Moon, that fans of the setting have proven to have a fairly weak grasp on "established background". [MENTION=3586]MerricB[/MENTION] already proved to you, more than once, that Tiamat has long been part of FR, as has Tharizdun and the Elder Evil.

Funny how "wrecking the gaff" means, "Stuff I personally don't like, regardless of quality", whenever this sort of discussion comes up.

You still don't get it apparently.

Just because Tiamat has been in FR for a while doesn't mean they still got her story correct. She was never trapped to begin with and it has already been proven that this was made up on the fly for the sake of the module.

Tharizdun is recognized as a deity of Oerth and made a brief mention around 1340 DR. A cult was established but Mystra intervened and nothing happened.

It wasn't until 4th edition that Tharizdun got more attention. Even during 4th edition they were trying the "cross over" thing. They are basically pulling him from Oerth over to Toril. Like we really need more gods to add to the roster.

There are several beings that could be considered "Elder Evils" such as Moander and Ghaunadaur, which BTW, already have way more established lore with which to work on but pull an epic fail and try to wedge in new lore.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Hussar: The problem with Tiamat and the Realms isn't that she doesn't have some history there. She does. The problem is that she hadn't been banished to the nine hells for centuries like the beginning of Tyranny of Dragons fluff suggests. And, she's really not that importnat a goddess in the Realms anyway. The second point can become a stength in that she and her worshippers work extra hard to become important. That's fine. The banished from the Realms for centuries and trying to come back when she already HAS come back is much more problematic.

Exactly!

She had some passing moments in the Realms but she has always been a minor player in the scheme of things. They are building her up and coming up with crappy lore in order to make their story of her fit.

 

[Laeknir]

I'm surprised that anyone except for a handful of die-hards still even care about or use the Realms. With the giant world-nukes and dying/reborn gods, with the extremely cheesy and poor quality novels, how can anyone take it seriously as a setting?

The last time I actually used the Realms was back in 2E. It seems like a big mistake to plunk new adventures down into the Realms, and an even bigger mistake to use it as a flagship setting.

But to each their own, I guess.

 

[SirAntoine]

It's important for the lore to be consistent. When you write an adventure, you may want it to live up to your players expectations. Imagine a player who loved Drizzt, for example, and when you include him as an NPC in an adventure you say he is not a drow or ranger at all. It's not that you don't have every right to change him, it's just that you may want it to live up to your players' expectations and it's hard to do that when there is all this inconsistent lore out there. Drizzt is pretty nailed down as far as I know, but about general things the lore seems to keep changing from edition to edition.

 

[Sailor Moon]

Instead of focusing on Tharizdun, they should be focusing on Ghaunadaur since he has now left the drow pantheon, become a greater deity, and established his own divine realm in Pandemonium.

 

[transtemporal]

then I changed to "She is too busy, other" and it was thrown in my face that she hates they and is a good aligned ruler... so yea...

I hate settings that require this much work.

The players are completely right. It would have taken you 5 minutes to read the entry for Aglarond. I hardly think that constitutes a lot of work. If youre just using it for the map and names, then tell them so. Otherwise they are quite reasonably going to question why theultra-powerful ruler of the country isnt taking a hand to defend it.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The players are completely right. It would have taken you 5 minutes to read the entry for Aglarond. I hardly think that constitutes a lot of work. If youre just using it for the map and names, then tell them so. Otherwise they are quite reasonably going to question why theultra-powerful ruler of the country isnt taking a hand to defend it.

yea, because they are the heroes of this story... not some mary sue from a novel?!?!? hows that. Of course they have a point and I would have to read a lot more then just a small entry, I read the paragraph about the country, and the next about her... I just didn't turn the page and see a whole right up for the chosen of a god 32nd level NPC that would end my campaign for single digit level PCs would be challenged...

Like I said when you load your campaign setting with superheroes of epic proportion you squeeze out the stories you can run...

If I want to run a story, I want to come up with a plot and an adventure. I don't want to have to explain away a whole setting full of landmines and explanations... especially since I don't care for the NPCs anyway (I would kill to never again hear about El munchkin). I want to run a game for friends, but when they ask to play in the realms it is literalry 100x the work.

First I come up with my plot and adventure (in most settings this is the end)
then I double check the basics of where my plot is, maybe come on here and say "Hey, I have this idea" for some feed back... (that is most pre made campaign settings)
Then I double check that I didn't leave a big plot whole, and imagine what my PCs will do (based on oog and ig personalities)
In the realms I then need to double check atleast all the chosen, but sometime all the big villians too, and that is more research then the above all added togather.
then I need an excuse for why each major player will or wont be involved...

 

[HobbitFan]

The movers and shakers from the novels are only a problem if players and DMs let them be a problem.

Ed Greenwood has said many times that Elminster isn't there to solve problems instead of players. He said we should assume that Elminster is off doing his own thing most of the time and can't be boethered with the specifics of every adventuring party.
I' m paraphrasing but you get the picture.

Elminster, Drizzt, Farideh, etc. are quite rightly stars of their own books. That doesn't mean they are stars of the setting. They are part of the setting, that's all.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The movers and shakers from the novels are only a problem if players and DMs let them be a problem.

Ed Greenwood has said many times that Elminster isn't there to solve problems instead of players. He said we should assume that Elminster is off doing his own thing most of the time and can't be boethered with the specifics of every adventuring party.
I' m paraphrasing but you get the picture.

Elminster, Drizzt, Farideh, etc. are quite rightly stars of their own books. That doesn't mean they are stars of the setting. They are part of the setting, that's all.

if that were the case then people wouldn't bitch about my suggestion of him just being a sage... make him a 'chosen' and a powerful sage, without any spells or only a few... let the PCs be the powerful casters...