5th lvl Crusader - my post game thoughts

[James McMurray]

Think of it this way-- you are allowing the cleric to be MORE than just a walking bandaid! He can actually CAST spells like Searing Light or Hold Person WITHOUT being yelled at by the other players, "How DARE you not save those spell slots to heal me?"

So don't think you are toe-stepping with him. You are giving him more opportunity to cast a lot of useful spells he'd otherwise not get a chance to.

QFT

My cleric absolutely loves that we have a Dragon Shaman with a Fast Healing aura in the group. I still do my fair share of healing, and have even started optimizing for it, but being able to do other things is fun too.

 

[welby]

Think of it this way-- you are allowing the cleric to be MORE than just a walking bandaid!

That was exactly his comment at the end of the session. He's a good player and certainly will shine his fair share of times. I think the problem is I was marginally more effective than him, and dramaticaclly more effective than the rog/wiz. As a new class I'm taking a hard look as what I was doing and it felt like too much compared to the other characters.

 

[javcs]

Alright, Wiz 3/Rog 2 just flat-out stinks: BAB of +2 (+3 with fractional), HP is probably around 20 or so, assuming average rolls and a +1 Con, 2nd level spells and 1d6 SA, Ref and Will are at +3 base, Fort is +0.
That you're more powerful is not a problem with the crusader.

The Cleric 5, is okay. Low levels are not kind to spell-casters in general.
You say you were marginally more effective, that's okay because melee types tend to be more in the spotlight at low levels than casters. Also, that you were healing more is okay because you were going up against mook-hordes, so missing with the important strikes was unlikely, at higher levels and against tougher foes, he'll heal more than you probably will.

 

[blargney the second]

Crusader is the one true paladin.

 

[Someone]

Jaycs is right. The ToB classes are very powerful, and the crusader particulary is specially effective against hordes of low level, low AC mooks: he doesn't run out of maneuvers, and his healing maneuvers and Stone Power can offset the damage they deal since said damage is small, he can hit reliably and the crusader can wait a couple rounds until he has the right maneuver. It's what crusaders do best: win a battle of attrition. And as you said, 5th level is one of the sweet spots for ToB classes.

Against, say, a troll (which can deal 40+ damage in one round) he may not have the healing maneuver when he needs most. Same for enemies with decent ACs.

 

[blargney the second]

I play my crusader as an enabler for the rest of the party. He uses his maneuvers to help allies get sneak attacks and power attacks, and heals and boosts their defenses whenever possible. Because he's usually only using a standard action to attack, he also moves around the battlefield to set up flanks. (Dodge, Mobility, and Elusive Target are a great combo for that.)

 

[Stalker0]

I agree that you picked a series of battles that is tailor made to the crusader's strengths, and you shined. In fact, if you had said that the crusader felt as good as the rest of the group, that might be grounds to say he's underpowered.

I'd wait and try a mix of encounters before worrying about anything. I mean, if you take a group of low AC, low fort save guys against a monk he looks pretty darn awesome, but I don't think anyone would say a monk is a stronger fighter overall than a fighter or barbarian

 

[Victim]

The Cleric 5, is okay. Low levels are not kind to spell-casters in general.
You say you were marginally more effective, that's okay because melee types tend to be more in the spotlight at low levels than casters. Also, that you were healing more is okay because you were going up against mook-hordes, so missing with the important strikes was unlikely, at higher levels and against tougher foes, he'll heal more than you probably will.

Cleric 5 is especially sad. The Cleric has lost his second point of Bab (less of a fighter), in exchange for 3rd level spells. Which, at 5th level, aren't so great since most of them have harsh scaling for delayed value. And others are rather situational. I mean, Dispel Magic is a great spell. But at 5th level, characters don't have so many buffs that dispels are critical and other must dispel magic is pretty rare.

If a crusader didn't seem to rock at level 5 compared to a proto arcane trickster and a cleric with favorable conditions, something is probably wrong.

 

[Nifft]

Unfortunately the rog/wiz tends to build characters that play out pretty useless for a while.
The cleric spent a few buffs spells on me (further empowering me) and used his spells pretty effectively. When he couldn't get over to a character to heal him but I used revitalizing strike to heal he made the comment, "is there anything your character can't do?" Last session it did not seem like there was something I couldn't do.

If you've got the best support caster in the game (the Cleric) actually acting like a support caster, there is nothing you cannot do.

Make sure to share the glory. When he casts bull's strength on you, and you hit your opponent by 2 or less, make sure the Cleric gets the kill. Add up the extra damage you do each round (2 or 3 points per hit, plus all the damage if you wouldn't have hit otherwise) thanks to him, and make sure he knows about it.

D&D is a team sport. Just because you're the one swinging the sword doesn't mean you should get all the credit, not if you are backed by a good team -- and it sounds like you are backed by a good team! Or at least by one good Cleric.

It's too bad about the ineffectual Wizard, but whatever -- I assume he's having fun anyway? If he also buffs you (with blur and later displacement & haste), you will really mow through foes.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mistwell]

stances - Martial Spirit, Roots of the Mountain
Feats - Stone Power, Extra Granted Maneuver, Vital Recovery

How do you have Roots of the Mountain? You got your second stance at second level, which allows you to choose only first level stances. The only way to get it would be a feat, or a house rule to allow delaying that stance to third level...