D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Ruin Explorer]

I didn't mean it in a bad way at all. Basically, we play a game that blends art and science, storytelling and mathematical probability. A LOT of people on this forum tend to prioritize the probability angle, but too much of that makes the "game" insufferable to play.

I meant gaslighting in terms of handwaving away the mathematical component, which I completely agree with. Math is the worst part of RPGs IMO. The true art is concealing a convincing illusion of reality behind a veil of numbers.

Please man don't accidentally reignite the whole endless "illusionism" insanity this board went through long ago (I'm guessing you weren't here for that). Please don't call that gaslighting. Please don't call it illusionism. Just please no negative terminology for that, even if you mean it nicely! I beg you!

 

[Lanefan]

"Very strongly implies" is not what is demanded of Fighters though. Fighters have to have ironclad, unequivocal proof.

The same standard should apply to everyone. Either the Fighter having wuxia powers means that wuxia powers have implied justification--just as Wizards copying scrolls "very strongly implies" their connection to an academic and/or hermetic tradition, or Clerics having this-that-etc. "very strongly implies" the existence of monasteries that train them

To me, the bolded are such basic assumptions they almost don't need to be mentioned.

That said, I can do without Fighters having wuxia powers. That's Monk territory, and also their niche.

 

[Lanefan]

I do think what you suggest would be very useful as DM options - i.e. dials - keep the default as it is (basically full reset), and then offer some options for different approaches in the DMG.

Make the default be the harshest setting. Dials should only go easier, not harder, if only to make life easier on the DMs who want to make changes.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

That said, I can do without Fighters having wuxia powers. That's Monk territory, and also their niche.

No, it's not.

You've put the cart before the horse.

Monks are colonisers on stolen land lol. Monks should not exist. They only exist because some utter oaf in the 1970s was a hyperfan of a very specific series of novels (not even kung fu flicks in general - someone here identified the specific novels where the character, who IIRC, is a frickin' white guy, has these powers), and managed to twist Gygax or whoever's arm into making a terrible class. We'd be better off if the Vampire class guy had succeeded at that, not him!

Delete Monks. We're not weird orientalists from the 1970s. We're not fans of incredibly bad (I am told) novels. Replace them with a class that's actually relevant to 2025 and can use the same powers isn't a weird niche-concept orientalist deal.

Monk is possibly the only class in D&D that locked into "How it was in the '70s, man". All the others have changed hugely, and changed with the times. Once more: delete Monks.

Maybe Fighters don't get their stuff but a class capable of being very like a Fighter should.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think that's probably the right grouping, and I suspect a D&D that really focused hard on levels 1-10 and making sure they were fun as hell would be significantly better than ones trying to cram 1-20 (or more!) in.

Also, if they release the others a year or two later, that gives them time to correct mistakes and see how things work out.

I think anything less than 1-10 is making a serious mistake because what you're creating is a "stopping point", and every time you do that, people get off, whether the game is good or not, people get off. I'm sure that in the longer-term, BECMI was hurt by that more than it was helped by the relatively lower prices and simpler rules that you can have with the smaller level brackets.

If you had a time machine D&D as a 10 level game would work.

Grand high poobah in charge I wouldn't make that decision though.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Make the default be the harshest setting. Dials should only go easier, not harder, if only to make life easier on the DMs who want to make changes.

No. That's completely nonsensical. There's a reason games start set to "Normal", not "ULTRA VIOLENCE" or "Nightmare".

It makes the game much harder to balance if the default assumption is max difficulty. That, unlike some things, is not an opinion. That's a demonstrable fact that's been repeatedly shown to be the case across many different kinds of game. The default assumption should be the mode one, the one the largest group of people are likely to want to use.

 

[kermit4karate]

Please man don't accidentally reignite the whole endless "illusionism" insanity this board went through long ago (I'm guessing you weren't here for that). Please don't call that gaslighting. Please don't call it illusionism. Just please no negative terminology for that, even if you mean it nicely! I beg you!

Apologies! I was not here for that. I can see it's a treacherous path and will try to avoid.

 

[Minigiant]

To me, the bolded are such basic assumptions they almost don't need to be mentioned.

That said, I can do without Fighters having wuxia powers. That's Monk territory, and also their niche.

Fighter don't need to be wuxia.

Fighters do need to be able to level powerwise to an Archmage. Just how Barbarians with enough levels become the Incredible Hulk.

Now I think there should be a "wuxia" class.

 

[TwoSix]

Sure, if your goal is to be as casual and generic a game as possible. Which WotC does, of course. But generally I think designers should design the game they want to play, and let the audience find that game. Art made for the lowest common denominator, whatever the medium, is usually shallow and unsatisfying.

Normal games, sure. But we're talking about a hypothetical D&D 6e.

As to classes and subclasses -- when specifically talking about a new edition of D&D, I think classes should be consolidated, subclasses should be eliminated, and talent trees should provide development opportunities and complexity.

My personal preference is for more classes, but lighter in weight. Only a few features (3-5, depending on complexity), all gained by level 5, and with light scaling of those features as levels increase. 1-2 pages in a book at maximum.

Much less metagame customization (no feats or anything like that), and much more diegetic customization. Less MMO, more roguelike.

 

[Reynard]

Make the default be the harshest setting. Dials should only go easier, not harder, if only to make life easier on the DMs who want to make changes.

Difficulty is not the only axis. You need dials for lots of things.