D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[kermit4karate]

What do you mean "gaslighting"?

I didn't mean it in a bad way at all. Basically, we play a game that blends art and science, storytelling and mathematical probability. A LOT of people on this forum tend to prioritize the probability angle, but too much of that makes the "game" insufferable to play.

I meant gaslighting in terms of handwaving away the mathematical component, which I completely agree with. Math is the worst part of RPGs IMO. The true art is concealing a convincing illusion of reality behind a veil of numbers.

 

[Minigiant]

Unlike most board games or Magic, you can't strip out the context of various editions of D&D (or other RPGs) and get to a core mathematical experience. That is because RPGs transcend the math they are based on (when they can be said to be "based" on any math at all; charitably, RPG design is more art than science). And it isn't just veneers of genre or tropes; it is procedures of play and how specific non-mathematical elements interact with the whole that define what the actual gameplay of any given edition or RPG is.

"It's just numbers" is about the saddest description of an RPG I have ever heard.

I'm not saying RPGs is just math.

I'm saying that a fighter, cleric, and elf in every edition are on the same line. Just at different points

The points just create different feels and offer different options.

Procedures is a table discussion.

 

[Reynard]

I didn't mean it in a bad way at all. Basically, we play a game that blends art and science, storytelling and mathematical probability. A LOT of people on this forum tend to prioritize the probability angle, but too much of that makes the "game" insufferable to play.

I meant gaslighting in terms of handwaving away the mathematical component, which I completely agree with. Math is the worst part of RPGs IMO. The true art is concealing a convincing illusion of reality behind a veil of numbers.

Thanks for the clarification. That is not a way I would have interpreted "gaslighting" without it.

 

[Reynard]

I'm not saying RPGs is just math.

I'm saying that a fighter, cleric, and elf in every edition are on the same line. Just at different points

The points just create different feels and offer different options.

Procedures is a table discussion.

I find it very strange that you don't see how system affects approach to the game and actual gameplay beyond "feels." But I don't want to belabor or argue about it. That's the way you see it. Fair enough.

 

[TwoSix]

This is, I think, because people are lazy and bad and can't be bothered to put 3 minutes work in to understanding the rules or their character while simultaneously expecting the GM to slave over every detail for hours in order to ensure the pinnacle Mercerian experience.

Yes, but those people still play and need to be catered to.

Make the core resolution system dirt simple, and use class and subclass features to make things more complex.

 

[Reynard]

Yes, but those people still play and need to be catered to.

Sure, if your goal is to be as casual and generic a game as possible. Which WotC does, of course. But generally I think designers should design the game they want to play, and let the audience find that game. Art made for the lowest common denominator, whatever the medium, is usually shallow and unsatisfying.

Make the core resolution system dirt simple, and use class and subclass features to make things more complex.

I agree that a core system should be easy to understand -- but because I think it makes for a better game when users (GMs and players, in this case) can intuit how it works so they can more easily make it their own.

As to classes and subclasses -- when specifically talking about a new edition of D&D, I think classes should be consolidated, subclasses should be eliminated, and talent trees should provide development opportunities and complexity.

 

[Parmandur]

As to classes and subclasses -- when specifically talking about a new edition of D&D, I think classes should be consolidated, subclasses should be eliminated, and talent trees should provide development opportunities and complexity.

...

does a shot

 

[Reynard]

...

does a shot

That's interesting. Is there a free preview or quickstart for Cosmere?

 

[Minigiant]

I find it very strange that you don't see how system affects approach to the game and actual gameplay beyond "feels." But I don't want to belabor or argue about it. That's the way you see it. Fair enough.

I understand that.

My point is it's all the same system just different slices of it.

You can just cut off the slice that you want and play by that approach.

You can make a game where 1e/2e in the front, 4e at the end, and 3e/5e in the middle. And people can just play the parts they are interested in and not play the part they don't care about.

 

[Pamphylian]

I think my ideal 6E would be something in between 2014 5e and AD&D. The somewhat streamlined core systems and middle-ground complexity "character builds" of 5e (by middle ground, I mean between TSR era and my first and second hand understanding of 3e/4e/The Pathfinders), combined with the larger subsystem/procedural scope, (optional) turning up of the simulationist dial, openness, flavour, and particularly the higher-risk higher-reward gameplay style of AD&D. I want some well tested dungeoneering/exploration/large scale combat procedures for those that partake, reams of random tables, devilish puzzles and traps galore, high impact and high risk magic items.

This would be sort of backtracking from the changes from 2014 -> 2024 5e. (If you will permit some mild negativity) I would want to leave the Pathfinder-2eifying to Paizo. I don't want a bunch more character abilities, I want resource management at a strategic level above the encounter, I want balance of high rewards through high risk rather than muted numerical modifiers, I want effects with game-impacting flavor, I certainly want the old Command back.

A new edition of D&D does need to be something of a compromise/jack of all trades between different styles (for rules and aesthetics), something that can be modified to table tastes, and can possibly serve as a funnel to more specific TTRPGS. I suppose I am proposing a different compromise (maybe less popular, but sometimes I wonder!) than it seems like things are heading based on the 2014->2024 trajectory, but this is how I'd do things.