D&D (2024) Is There A New Sheriff in Town?

Id argue the Pathfinder split raised Golarion and Paizo adventures to the next level. If they had moved to 4E, they'd still be a good third party option and folks definitely have opinions on third party options. In other words, limited market.
"What if" scenarios are always difficult, because there's a large portion of guesswork involved. But Paizo had two related advantages no other third-party creator had: a solid reputation for making good adventures (which they had gotten via Dungeon and particularly the adventure paths they had already done there), and the magazine subscriber lists which they used to gain a solid customer base from the start. In their retrospectives, they have written about what a huge advantage that was. Basically, what they did when the magazine licenses ran out was to send letters to all their subscribers telling them "Because our license has run out, the Dragon and Dungeon magazines have been cancelled with issues so-and-so being the last ones. You had a subscription that was supposed to run until issue so-and-so, and therefore we owe you $X. We can either mail you a check for that amount, or we can apply that toward a new subscription of our coming Pathfinder Adventure Paths. Which would you prefer?" And since they had such a good reputation for making adventures, a lot of their subscribers took them up on their offer. And this was all long before there were any plans for making the Pathfinder RPG.

They've also written about what a huge gamble the Pathfinder RPG was. The main reasons they made it in the first place were (a) they didn't care for the 4e rules and didn't want to make adventures for them, and (b) the GSL had many provisions that made it intolerable for them to use. Had those things not been true, I'm sure they would have preferred to make Pathfinder APs for a hypothetical different 4e rather than risking making a new(ish) RPG. And had they done so, they'd have made them for the whole D&D market rather than the portion that decided to reject 4e. Would that have worked out better or worse for them in the long run? It's really impossible to say.
 

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I think the myth of Pathfinder beating D&D comes from the excitement Paizo felt vs.the disappointment WotC felt. PF quickly sold out at GenCon, Paizo was thrilled that they could hire back some people they had laid off plus more. Their PF gamble had paid off. They could publish more PF books and keep their Adventure Path line going. It felt like there was a stream of laid off WotC employeess getting picked up at Paizo. PF was showing up on the shelves of bookstore chains.

WotC, on the other hand, was cancelling projects, flailing around in attempts to make 4e stick, and then giving up on the whole edition. It's not surprising that it feels like PF outsold 4e. The companies had two wildly different ideas of success, due to independent small Paizo vs. Hasbro owned WotC.
 

I think the myth of Pathfinder beating D&D comes from the excitement Paizo felt vs.the disappointment WotC felt. PF quickly sold out at GenCon, Paizo was thrilled that they could hire back some people they had laid off plus more. Their PF gamble had paid off. They could publish more PF books and keep their Adventure Path line going. It felt like there was a stream of laid off WotC employeess getting picked up at Paizo. PF was showing up on the shelves of bookstore chains.

WotC, on the other hand, was cancelling projects, flailing around in attempts to make 4e stick, and then giving up on the whole edition. It's not surprising that it feels like PF outsold 4e. The companies had two wildly different ideas of success, due to independent small Paizo vs. Hasbro owned WotC.
I think you have highlighted a problem here. Whist Daggerheart doesn’t actually threaten WotC, that doesn’t mean it won’t send them into a blind panic over it.

Which could mean they conclude that they need to make D&D more like Daggerheart (as they did with WoW). That would be bad, since Daggerheart is a much narrower game.
 

I think you have highlighted a problem here. Whist Daggerheart doesn’t actually threaten WotC, that doesn’t mean it won’t send them into a blind panic over it.
I am not seeing WotC panicking over DH. They ‘panicked’ over 4e because its sales were bad and falling, not because someone somewhere released a competing game. That competing game gained traction because 4e was failing all by itself, not the other way around.

Since I do not see DH taking on D&D, there would be no reason to panic. If DH ate 30% of D&D sales however, WotC would need to ‘panic’ / react to that
 



Reacting would probably be WoTC 'borrowing' whatever novel elements that proved to be popular in Daggerheart
yes, they would probably lean into the same direction, not sure how else they could react in a way that would get people back.

A new setting with some DH species and some other DH elements might be enough, maybe some narrative gaming advice in an 'of Everything' book too. I do not see them creating a whole new D&D edition unless things are going way wrong from WotC's perspective.
 


The point is, panic isn’t rational. Not having a reason to panic has never prevented people from panicking.

Panic may not be rational, but it still needs a trigger. I do not see the release of DH to be enough for that.

If D&D sales shrink drastically, whether because of DH or for some other unknown reason, then WotC might panic and move in a DH direction to stem the flow, but I am not seeing DH as making enough of an impact to trigger that. Time will tell
 

Panic may not be rational, but it still needs a trigger. I do not see the release of DH to be enough for that.

If D&D sales shrink drastically, whether because of DH or for some other unknown reason, then WotC might panic and move in a DH direction to stem the flow, but I am not seeing DH as making enough of an impact to trigger that. Time will tell
You don’t know the corporate mentality. Sales don’t have to shrink in order to trigger panic, they just have to stop increasing in the way they had been. And guess what? That is already happening. It has nothing to do with DH, but DH is attracting a lot of attention right now, and in business maths 2+2=5.
 

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