D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[Scribe]

Except, as I have specifically and repeatedly said, actual people aren't doing this.

They will ALL start at 1st level. Because it's first. If it weren't the place absolutely everyone were supposed to start, why would they make it first? Isn't "first" the place where things start? Then we're going to start at 1st, because it is first!

This isn't a rules issue though, it's a failure to guide play by offering more options via packaged adventures which...don't start at 1.

 

[Scribe]

The Avenger, from 4e, revealed an under-served archetype, that has both historical precedent (the actual Hashshashin, for example, or the--claimed--righteous warrior nature of the Benandanti) and roleplay-gameplay value (e.g. fans of Ezio Auditore and his whole thing). That does not fit into the "oath" structure of the Paladin thematically, nor does it fit into the "heavy armor, shield, protector-healer" Paladin mechanically. The Avenger gives us something that has been missing for a long time: the holy skillmonkey, the divine stabby-boi. Someone who can be a devout religious person, and yet also a ruthless killer, whose "support" manifests only and exclusively in the hunting down of wickedness, not in anything that actually heals or bolsters or inspires others.

I guess I don't have the context required. I just think of a martial class with a religious background or back story. I've been completely disappointed by Wizards handling of anything God/Divine, so I guess I am just conditioned to see the concept as something we could handle already.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This isn't a rules issue though, it's a failure to guide play by offering more options via packaged adventures which...don't start at 1.

I am well convinced that no amount of "guiding" will ever achieve this effect.

The grammar of the English language is simply too strong. First is first is first is first is first is first. You'll simply never convince people to do anything else.

If third level is too high for people to start because first is first is first is first, what hope is there for ever choosing anything else? None. Simply none.

I hate it with a passion. I wish that it weren't this way. I wish there were a better way. If you can, in fact, show me that there is a better way, I would embrace it with open arms.

I've just seen far, far too much evidence firsthand to believe that there is another way.

 

[Scribe]

If you can, in fact, show me that there is a better way, I would embrace it with open arms.

"We are playing this adventure, it starts at level 5."

It's that simple?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

"We are playing this adventure, it starts at level 5."

It's that simple?

You'll never get GMs saying that, is what I mean.

I mean, this is obviously the loose squishy kind of "never" where there are obviously exceptions.

But they're just that. Exceptions. Extremely overwhelmingly rare exceptions.

 

[Scribe]

You'll never get GMs saying that, is what I mean.

I mean, this is obviously the loose squishy kind of "never" where there are obviously exceptions.

But they're just that. Exceptions. Extremely overwhelmingly rare exceptions.

I think that's the fault of Wizards. They absolutely could have provided adventures that start at higher level. Looking at the ocean of content out there, it's weird of Wizards actually and just another black mark on their management of the game.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I think that's the fault of Wizards. They absolutely could have provided adventures that start at higher level. Looking at the ocean of content out there, it's weird of Wizards actually and just another black mark on their management of the game.

If people were exclusively running canned adventures, I would agree.

I specifically avoided games using pre-written adventures. I wanted to see what GMs were doing.

I found all of two games starting at higher level, and only got into one of them (which, of course, died an early death, as I have said elsewhere). 5e GMs simply do not want to start at higher levels, and those I felt I had any hope of persuading to do otherwise always flatly refused. Sometimes neutrally, sometimes condesecendingly, sometimes with hostility. But they always outright and unequivocally refused.

 

[Scribe]

I specifically avoided games using pre-written adventures. I wanted to see what GMs were doing

OK, so games are starting at higher than 1? You just filtered them out?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

OK, so games are starting at higher than 1? You just filtered them out?

I have no idea whether they are or aren't, but by your own arguments they aren't? Like...you literally just blamed the fact this doesn't happen on WotC not putting out adventures that start at higher levels...?????

 

[Micah Sweet]

No, you misunderstand me.

I mean no reduction in player counts. The "negative change" is "fewer people playing the game".

I see all the time folks bitterly swearing off ever playing a game if X thing happens. And then X thing happens...and there isn't a sudden player exodus. If anything, numbers go up, not down.

People who make those "IF CUBE MONSOON DOES THIS I'M LEAVING FOREVER!!!" are shouting to the void, not actually proclaiming their serious intent to depart. They want to be heard. They rarely actually want to leave, and the thing they're complaining about rarely actually is a true dealbreaker. They're just mad and calling it a dealbreaker makes them feel better, makes them feel like they're making a stand and truly making a difference.

Edit: And, if you're curious? I made my voice heard as much as I could during the public playtests. I'm someone protesting from the outside, because I only play 5e due to Hussar's invitation to his group. I don't buy 5e products and I don't give WotC any of my money in any other way. I'm already out, as it were.


Precisely this.

People b@#$h b@#$h b@#$h without cease, and then when an actual thing goes through...more than half the time they don't do a damned thing they proclaimed they would, they just keep playing.

When people actually do leave, it's almost always a quiet affair, because they've truly passed a breaking point and no longer care about playing the game. Because they no longer care about playing it, they no longer feel any attachment--and thus no reason to complain loudly. They just leave.

People making proclamations, to get attention to an issue, aren't leaving--they're advocating for change. They're protesters, not emigrants.

Well I can't speak for others, but I both stopped buying WotC products and still complain about the current state of the official game. So at least I put my lack of money where my mouth is.