D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[EzekielRaiden]

And yet that houserule document, if widely distributed, can still help inform others about that hobbyist's ideas and what worked and what didn't. One can then take those ideas, apply and test them oneself, and maybe learn from them. And therefore...

Nnnnnope. Because that is, as stated, all of them hand-making their own thing.

Inspiring others is not what a playtest document is for. It may be what a houserule document could theoretically achieve. A playtest document isn't for that.

...I still see little if any functional difference other than a) the author's intent and b) expected (or hoped-for) level of feedback.

.....of course other than those things. That's... that's literally THE MOST important thing about being a playtest!

 

[Zardnaar]

Oh let's power creep the crap out of Gnomes. Because why not?

Goliath, Human, Elf or Aasimar levels.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well then, let me tell you the tale of Darth Wyvern the Golden.

4e was originally going to have a lot more flavor and setting information. They released an early preview showing a Wizard feat, "Golden Wyvern Adept". The feat was mechanically identical to the eventual Spell Accuracy feat we got in the actual 4e PHB1, which functionally works like the 5e Sorcerer metamagic "Careful Spell" (but it scales off your Wis mod, not Cha, and could be used anytime, no resource cost.) It came with various fluff bits talking about the Golden Wyvern order and its Adepts. None of the fluff was mandatory, it was just pre-written, so that the game would have a flavor and direction to start with.

This precipitated an absolute firestorm, because how DARE the books DEMAND that every GM's world absolutely must have Golden Wyverns in it, and an order of Adepts named after it that practiced certain types of techniques! That was so horrendously offensive, it kicked off an incredible wave of outrage. So WotC listened. This was before the books were ready to be printed, so they adjusted. They removed all of the flavorful names and gave things clean, dry, no-fluff titles so that every group could invent their own flavor. They reduced the presentation of fluff on powers to just a single line of generic descriptive text, so that people could get a loose idea of the designers' intent, but not feel in any way restricted by that intent. They focused their designs on being effective mechanics, and trusted GMs to specify the flavor and world-building, because that is what people told them they wanted.

And then what was 4e trashed for? Dry, mechanical descriptions and design. Books with no flavor, descriptions that were "anemic", everything sooooo generic.

It was quite literally listening to feedback, responding to a firestorm of criticism, and then getting a new one for heeding the first!

TL;DR: The designers tried to include flavor. They were told, loudly and angrily, ”HOW DARE YOU FORCEFEED US FLAVOR?!” Then, when they published books that avoided any suggestion of forcefeeding anyone flavor...they were told, loudly and angrily, ”WHERE'S THE FLAVOR?!?!?!"

WotC could literally do no right. It wasn't possible. Include flavor and you're ramming it down GMs' throats. Exclude it and you're producing a dry technical manual rather than a lovingly-illumined manuscript.

There was plenty of flavor in D&D both before and after 4e though. How could that have happened without the "firestorm" you're describing?

 

[Minigiant]

Which is ironically their own damn fault because of the OGL crisis and the other bad behavior of the past several years.

Nah. By 3e ended, the community was too split to do what Hasbro wanted.

Community was literally split in 4. WOTC would have to commit to placating 4 different groups halfway.

 

[Remathilis]

I guess in my dream 6e, Fighter would have the role as a super combatant so the barbarian, or whatever you want to call it, wouldn't have to be Mr. Beefcake with all the Hit Points. Let's say you had a Wilder class that had monk-level hit points and a lot of cool abilities related to interacting with the wilderness. At first level you choose to either do Nature Spellcasting (Druid), Wild Style Combat (Barbarian), or Scouting (Ranger). The uniting theme of all three directions would be Nature, but each path could focus on a different style of play.

I still don't see how you combine a scout, wilderness warrior or nature caster into one class without a.) feats, b.) powers, or c.) talent trees, but its your hypothetical 6e.

 

[Lanefan]

Alone? Obviously not. They did make several mistakes.

But it is just as obviously wrong to say that they totally ignored customer feedback, built a game nobody wanted, and then were shocked by the results.

4e also didn't fail. Per reports from actual former employees. Great myth though.

The only thing it failed to do was hit the absolutely impossible sales standards set for it.

A measure of success-failure might be how many people are still playing it today as their go-to regular game.

I'd expect, if success had been roughly equal across the board, the player-base numbers for each prior edition to tail off as the editions get older, thus 4e would still have more players than 3e which would itself have more than 2e, etc.

If I think of it later I might bang out a poll to this effect in the older-editions subforum.

 

[Minigiant]

Oh let's power creep the crap out of Gnomes. Because why not?

Goliath, Human, Elf or Aasimar levels.

The Gnome kings in my setting has Gundams hidden in that environment via illusions.

 

[Lanefan]

I assume there is a difference between your most engaged and your most opinionated though

If not, and that means everyone filling out the UA ...

I see "UA" and think Unearthed Arcana, which probably isn't what it means here. So what is it here?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There was plenty of flavor in D&D both before and after 4e though. How could that have happened without the "firestorm" you're describing?

No idea. I can only report the facts as they occurred. This is what happened. The designers listened to fan criticism before release, and they were literally told that what they did to respond to that was also unacceptable.

You can dispute many things, but the events that occurred are what they are. Unless you're meaning to say that I've lied about what happened regarding Golden Wyvern Adept?

 

[Micah Sweet]

No idea. I can only report the facts as they occurred. This is what happened. The designers listened to fan criticism before release, and they were literally told that what they did to respond to that was also unacceptable.

You can dispute many things, but the events that occurred are what they are. Unless you're meaning to say that I've lied about what happened regarding Golden Wyvern Adept?

No, but have you considered the possibly that their scorched earth response was also inappropriate?