6th Level fighter

[G.A. Donis]

In a recent encounter, my 6th level fire genasi fighter (56 HP) was completely and utterly destroyed....in the suprise round. I'm talking do not pass Go, do not collect 200gp, go straight to very dead. He got hit four times by two animated trees with 1 of those a critical. We didn't actually count up all the damage, but it took me past -10 with a plenty of room to spare.

The module we were running was supposed to be for 4 7th level characters. The whole encounter had the two animated trees (A treant off somewhere doing this), a sorcerer, 2 elven archers of some type, and some evil fairy thing (I think). Supposedly it all added up to an EL12. Our party was 5 people all 7th level (one a veritable multi-class nightmare with 3 or 4 classes). The only reason anybody survived, was because the DM took pity (a rare occurance for him) and the treant pretty much sat out the fight and the multi-class nightmare had spellfire and emptied her energy on one tree and took it out.

I thought my fighter with a 20 AC was armored pretty well. What would you expect for a 7th level front line fighter's AC? And putting 4 7th level characters against an EL12, doesn't that seem a little harsh?

To be fair to the DM, when he realised he just killed my character before anybody had time to blink, he was going to "adjust" the damage to put him at -5. I told him don't worry, if he dies, he dies and I'll roll up another, no biggie. I think the party's going to help spring for a true ressurection as soon as we get out of the boonies and back to civilization. Anyway, more than 66 damage in the suprise round really qualified as a suprise (in my book) and makes me wonder if my fighter isn't very under protected. What say ye?

 

[Gargoyle]

What was the module? Posting the name would be a spoiler, I suppose, but an encounter that overpowered ought to be spoiled, IMO.

 

[G.A. Donis]

I left out the name for that reason. I'm reluctant to post it, since spoilers are kind of a pet peeve of mine.

A funny thing happened that night also. The DM uses cards to help run battles, and he told one player that he wasn't going to put his name on a card since he dies alot (he does). There were two characters (out of a total of 6, the correct number of characters) that did not drop in that combat. Both of them rogues. Guess who was one of them. Of course, he had boots of munchkin (springing and striding or haste or some such) and ran away as soon as he got out of the entangle that trapped most of the party (it didn't trap me 'cuz I was very sincerely dead before it got cast). The other rogue decided it would be best if he just hid (which he is VERY good at) and helped save (or recover the body of) his fallen friends when things calmed down.

The total carnage went something like this: My fighter - dead, a second fighter - dead, 1 rogue - put to sleep in suprise round woke up and very properly hid, 1 rogue entangled and then run off, 1 sorcerer - down but stabalized, 1 multi-class nightmare(cleric, barbarian, spellfire) - down but stabalized.

PS: I called them boots of munchkin, because all this person's characters have these boots.

 

[Kugar]

Unless I miss my guess its a WotC mod, and is in contention for the worst plot of the lot. Don't feel bad, I DMed it and didn't like it as written. Sorry for the character loss, but I belive that the mod writer intended for the fight to be overwhelming, but not impossible - and definitely avoidable and negotiable. I would like to hear how your characters came to blows with the fair folk.

Kugar

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Nothing wrong with an el 12 for a group of 7ths. Hell, my group is in Rappan Athuk. They have learned to run. Obviously, you can't always get away, and it sounds like the surprise round is what got you. Anyway my .03 cents (inflation.)

 

[Grendel]

You got screwed man

surprise round offers only partical actions, there is no way that tree people should get two attacks each.

 

[Victim]

AC 20 isn't that great for a front line fighter at 7th level. For example, Full Plate and a Large Shield are affordable by a 3rd level character. Together they provide AC 20. That's good at 3rd level. At level 7 however, many of the creatures you'll fight could pound on you with style. I don't believe it would be unreasonable to expect a 7th level character to get a point from dex, 2 from enhancement bonuses, and perhaps one more from a ring or amulet. Of course, in a surprise round, you probably won't be getting dex. I'd expect an AC of at least 22 with decent stats, and the ability to boost in emergencies. When our campaign started at level 6 (joining at the start of the school year), the fighter had 21, IIRC, and his shield could be activated once per day to cast a level one Shield spell and he had some haste potions. This character wore leather armor. I also have a swashbuckler at level 6 with 22 AC, but some of that is coming from items that the group found and wasn't using till I came, so the wealth may be skewed. However, with 36 HP, he needs the AC. Melee based creatures around your level will often have attack bonuses around 15 through 20. Fortunately, characters will have lower attack bonuses. It takes a lot of effort at your level to fend off monster attacks.


However, a surprise round, your foes should only have partial actions. Since they are trees, you'd probably walk within their reach, so getting only a partial charge isn't a problem. However, they should be getting ONE attack. Unless the trees were hasted, they should have got one attack each, not two. How much damage did those extra attacks do?

 

[Gilrion]

Tough encounter. Your party will have some problems to recover, no doubt, but that can be part of the fun (does your character want to come back? If so, why?)

AC 20 for a 7th level fighter is a bit low. It's not desastrous or any such thing, but if you are a front-liner, you really should have more. What gets you that AC?
If you use a shield, it will be pretty cheap (for 7th level) to raise that AC by at least 2 points: +1000 for a +1 shield, and another 1000 gp for a +1 armor. For 2000 gp you could get a ring of protection +1 or an amulet of natural armor, affording you one or two more points.

Expertise is a must-have for all fighters, IMO. While it wouldn't have helped you in the surprise round, it might have helped the other deceased fighter stand up for some more time: by 7th level, with a good strength and some magic backup (bull's strength, an even slightly magical weapon) you could use full expertise to boost your AC and still hit reasonable enemies.


Or perhaps that is the problem: I've been told WotC expects a group to regularly buff up before a fight, and took that into account when designing the CR system. If your cleric or sorcerer helping with this? Even the rogues could give it a hand; I'm sure after this fiasco the characters would be willing to chip in on some wands or scrolls which the rogues can use. Better luck next time, I guess

 

[trimeulose]

Now I would have to know what your stats are to make an acurate discription, but this is a low down of what I figure your character should average about to.

Str 16
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 8

BaB; +7/+2

Feats: probably Expertise, Dodge, Weapon focus, Weapon Specialization, Mobility, Spring Attack, (maybe an exotic weapon)

gear: 13,000

+1 FP mail 2.650
+1 large steel shield 1170
Ring of protection +1 2,000
+1 weapon 2300 + weapon cost
3 potions of giant Str: 900
3 potion of enlarge: 750
2 potions of haste :1500
various other things: 900 gp

So if you go all out on expertise and choose your dodge enemy then you are going to have an AC of 29 (30 against your dodge enemy), Your BaB will be: +6/+1 (if you enlarge then it will be +7/+2) And you will get further bonuses depending on the potion of Bulls Str. Figure in that you do average with your die rolling then your average 17/12 on the rolls. thats not bad. If you find out what the AC of the creature is change how much Expertise you use so that you should hit the creature with an average hit.
If you drink the potion of haste then you will further increase that AC by 4 (making it a 33) and you will get another partial action.

the damage of your weapon will increase by 7 + more depending on the bulls str.

Of course you can always lower the expertise. In any case your flat footed AC would be 24

 

[G.A. Donis]

I'll have to talk the DM about the suprise round and only partial actions. He's pretty good about recognizing and learning from a mistake. This is kinda embarrasing, but I don't remember all his stats right off the top of my head. I actually have 4 active characters (2 different homebrews, 1 Living City (maybe not for long) and 1 Living Greyhawk) and usually can't remember the stats for any of them. We play one homebrew on Wed. night, the other homebrew on Sat. night and the Living stuff on Sundays. He has an 18 str, fairly high dex and int (he's kinda smug about being smart). My AC comes from +3 drow elven chainmail and dex. He does not have expertise or mobility. He has Dirty Fighting ('cuz he likes to hit bad guys in the 'nards), Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Weapon Spec. (Greatsword) and Dodge. I maybe forgetting something. He uses a "custom" weapon. It is a greatsword in the shape of a scimitar and is a family heirloom that has some pretty cool features. Because of his family background he can rage once a day and if he's holding the family sword (oops, that didn't sound quite right, did it?) it turns into a flaming sword. And his sword seems to enjoy criticizing his fighting technique. Because of that using a shield is out. After the true res. he's liable to be somewhat money poor so he might have to wait to get an amulet or ring. He started out as someone who didn't trust or like magic, but after getting stomped several times (he's like a yo-yo), he has learned to accept magic that will help him be a better fighter.

I haven't decided on what the long term effect of dying is going to be. He already has something of an inferiority complex and is afraid of kobolds. He also is reluctant to ask for healing from the party cleric. That would be a sign of weakness. He definately needs some sort of personality swing or new phobia after being dead.